Upways and Sidedown - Who Initiates, Sub or Domme, and Who Pay$? (Full Version)

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MistressK2011 -> Upways and Sidedown - Who Initiates, Sub or Domme, and Who Pay$? (4/24/2011 6:56:22 PM)

Two things I know are true.
(1) This is going to be a topic in which many will give me all the good reasons the sub needs to earn his way by paying for stuff*
(2) Well I forgot #2 but maybe it will come to me later**

I have become comfortable in this new 'world'. Not the 'going to events' kind, but maybe. The actual question comes at the end. These are the parts to think about, where I'm coming from:

When a Domme is interested in a sub, ought she make the suggestion to meet? I've heard many different answers. Some include that she should wait for the sub because he's the man."

I'm willing to bet that when a *Dom* is interested in a sub most people will say it's up to him to suggest meeting, etc. and the sub can hint but it's up to the man (Dom) to initiate.

So bearing in mind that I think this double standard lives and breathes, in a Domme/Sub dynamic, who does what? Does it change the basic dynamics?

You're a Domme. You're going to meet a sub for the first time. Who suggests it? Who pays for the coffee (or whatever)? Who does the follow up email (thanks/no thanks) or phone call if it goes really well? (I had a first date that lasted 72 hours, then later 11 years but that was before email really took off) Note the use of 'dated', rather than first meeting. So please feel free to answer for either 'first meeting' or 'BDSM relationship' or both.


If we are saying that the Domme is the dominant one, does it mean that she should actually pay because she is taking charge of the situation, because this is a sub she is taking 'care of' in a BDSM way?

Should a Domme feel that her role is the initiator? Where does the meeting take place? So far I've done the 'halfway' point, so that all things are equal. I like it that way.

You may wonder, and yes my dating experiences have varied. Guy I was married to, he paid then I did more because I made more. Next guy I dated offered to pay, but we always split it. Guy after that said he wouldn't allow me to pay. Last guy I dated, "it's my job to pay for my girlfriend".

So ok, ladies (and lovely men) in the BDSM relationship, whose 'job' is it to pay for stuff and initiate things? Is that role going to differ depending on the gender? If so, why should it?

For the record - I wasn't really asking in a hand wringing what should I do sense. More the philosophical one. I know what I do, and what works. I'm curious to see how others do it.-K

*Which is the worst excuse I've heard of for a Domme being cheap
**Nope, I'm never going to remember what #2 was. Oh well.



LadyPact -> RE: Upways and Sidedown - Who Initiates, Sub or Domme, and Who Pay$? (4/24/2011 7:14:41 PM)

Just a warning.  Darn near any thread that has anything to do with money and Dominant women has a potential to get ugly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressK2011
When a Domme is interested in a sub, ought she make the suggestion to meet?

Why couldn't she?  This really is the twenty-first century.  It's not like all vanilla women out there are going by the standard of the Victorian age, where the woman had to wait for the gentleman to call on her.

quote:

I've heard many different answers. Some include that she should wait for the sub because he's the man."

I'm surprised that anybody gave you this antiquated answer when discussing Dominant women.

quote:

I'm willing to bet that when a *Dom* is interested in a sub most people will say it's up to him to suggest meeting, etc. and the sub can hint but it's up to the man (Dom) to initiate.

Some people feel more secure with the old fashioned gender roles.  So be it.

quote:

So bearing in mind that I think this double standard lives and breathes, in a Domme/Sub dynamic, who does what?

It seriously doesn't matter.  If you are a Dominant woman, why wouldn't you do what you want to do?

quote:

Does it change the basic dynamics?

I don't have "dynamics" with people I haven't even met yet.

quote:

You're a Domme. You're going to meet a sub for the first time. Who suggests it?

If I want to meet the person, I do.

quote:

Who pays for the coffee (or whatever)?

I usually tell someone about the next munch/event that I plan to be attending anyway.  Everybody pays their own door entry or tab at the restaurant.  It's just going dutch.

quote:

Who does the follow up email (thanks/no thanks) or phone call if it goes really well? (I had a first date that lasted 72 hours, then later 11 years but that was before email really took off)

I do.  That way, I'm not concerned about the other party playing any of these silly 'which gender should do what' kind of things.

quote:

If we are saying that the Domme is the dominant one, does it mean that she should actually pay because she is taking charge of the situation, because this is a sub she is taking 'care of' in a BDSM way?

Why would I be taking care of someone that I'm meeting the first time?  I'm not somebody's automatic owner just because we have a meal together.

quote:

Should a Domme feel that her role is the initiator?

That would be up to the Domme in question. 

quote:

Where does the meeting take place?

See above.  Some public event that I was already planning on attending anyway.

quote:

So far I've done the 'halfway' point, so that all things are equal. I like it that way.

If you like it, that is an excellent choice for you.

quote:

So ok, ladies (and lovely men) in the BDSM relationship, whose 'job' is it to pay for stuff and initiate things? Is that role going to differ depending on the gender? If so, why should it?

I think the Dominant should handle it in the way she/he sees fit.  If it really does become a dynamic down the road, isn't that how she is going to deal with every other thing?  The way she sees fit?



MistressK2011 -> RE: Upways and Sidedown - Who Initiates, Sub or Domme, and Who Pay$? (4/24/2011 7:28:36 PM)

Money and Dommes? Touchy subject? No way! :-P

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I think the Dominant should handle it in the way she/he sees fit.  If it really does become a dynamic down the road, isn't that how she is going to deal with every other thing?  The way she sees fit?



(Grins) I like your style. I live in a kind of 'backwards' place where some of the older men (my father's age) had a huge problem with their wives having jobs. ;-) This to explain some of the more 'antiquated' ideas that are a usual in my area.

For the record - I wasn't really asking in a hand wringing what should I do sense, and I don't think you took it that way but I did post a disclaimer on the original. I know what I do, and what works. I'm curious to see how others do it.

-K



RedMagic1 -> RE: Upways and Sidedown - Who Initiates, Sub or Domme, and Who Pay$? (4/24/2011 7:38:51 PM)

On a date a couple years ago, I was about to pay, and she sidled in front of me and put down cash, then gave me a "gotcha" smirk. Sexy as hell.

In terms of evaluating the guy, he would be gentlemanly enough to pay, and confident enough to be ok with you paying.



littlewonder -> RE: Upways and Sidedown - Who Initiates, Sub or Domme, and Who Pay$? (4/24/2011 8:20:40 PM)

When I was still dating and talking to men we were on equal footing until I was in a relationship with them. Until that point then it was whoever brought up the idea to meet first. Sometimes I did, sometimes he did.

When just getting to know someone and on the first date I admit I am old fashioned...I like a man to pay and the type of men I am attracted to are that type of man. If he didn't pay on the first date I admit I probably wasn't interested in him any further.

After the first date though then it was whoever could afford it at the time.

The same still goes for us now. We sometimes go half, he sometimes pays, sometimes I do. It just depends on lots of different factors. We're both financially responsible in that way.





Wickad -> RE: Upways and Sidedown - Who Initiates, Sub or Domme, and Who Pay$? (4/24/2011 8:28:34 PM)

(fast reply)

When meeting initially I prefer to go dutch. After we've gotten past the initial decision as to if a D/s relationship is even going to happen, then I prefer to pay.

I believe that as the Dominant, you pay. To me it doesn't matter if you are male or female but rather what 'role' you are. Just my take on things, others will vary.

Wickad



SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Upways and Sidedown - Who Initiates, Sub or Domme, and Who Pay$? (4/24/2011 8:32:34 PM)

~FR~
 
If I'm interested enough to meet, I'll say something to the effect of "hey, we should get together for coffee/tea/beverage of choice sometime" and gauge the reaction.  If the other person expresses interest in doing so, I'll suggest a day and time and we negotiate from there.  However, the first meeting is not a "date," IMO.  It's the face-to-face introduction, so we each pay for our own unless the sub offers while we're there.  If the meeting is going well when the offer is made, I'll accept.  If not, I'll decline. 
 
If it's going well enough, I'll suggest we "do this again soon" and see how that goes.  If the sub seems eager to do so, then I'll handle the social calendar for the first official date unless the sub takes the initiative and asks to be allowed to handle it.  If not, then I won't pursue further meetings unless the sub specifically contacts me for a date.  In my world, the person who does the asking does the paying. 



BKSir -> RE: Upways and Sidedown - Who Initiates, Sub or Domme, and Who Pay$? (4/24/2011 8:38:03 PM)

Okay, so I'm not a female, but, whatever...

I believe that in the beginning, start small, go out for coffee or maybe a bite of lunch at a decent place, paying your own way is fine if you want. Personally, I figure, if I invite, then I'm paying. Just how my household has always done things. If I invite, then you're my guest, and I'm covering it.

Later on, after things have gotten more comfortable, then feel free to bicker over the check.

However, things change for my household if I do end up taking that person as our pet. In that case, as my pet, I am to take care of him. Why? Because I said so. So, I pay. Of course, that rule isn't set in stone, and if he says "Sirs? I'd like to take us out to dinner." Well, I'm not going to argue. If he has money, it's his to do with as he sees fit. If he wants to buy dinner, that's fine by me.

Initiating things then... I tend to be the one to do so, unless there is a particularly bold candidate who beats me to the punch and asks to go out and meet. I still tend to pay, because I don't mind, and am in a position in life to be able to do so. Most of the ones I'm interested in are still rather young and just getting settled into a real job and haven't had time to save up and all of that, or are still in college (which is anything but free). If it's someone I'm meeting and such, then chances are good that I'm seriously interested in having that person as my pet, and I want to help put their minds at ease about the financial side of things at least.

Of course, this is just my views and my household. May not work for everyone. Actual mileage may vary. Do not use internally. Avoid contact with eyes. Caution: Flammable.



AAkasha -> RE: Upways and Sidedown - Who Initiates, Sub or Domme, and Who Pay$? (4/24/2011 8:40:27 PM)


I think a safe rule of thumb is that the person doing the pursuing is the person making the calls, doing the paying and courting. Most of my relationships in my life, I have pursued the man, paid for the courting and maintained the timing of things like first kisses, when things are "serious," and what the rules are. That's more my "style" and I have always wanted to be the successful career woman with more money, with "kept men," who called the shots and didn't need a man's money anyway. My lifestyle in this manner peaked in my late 20s when I was mostly courting men right out of college who were flat broke yet my career was taking off and I could lavish them with gifts and a pretty nice lifestyle and there was no doubt who was in charge.

I'm more mature about it now, but one thing is clear (at least for me). I still enjoy being the one who pays; but if a man is courting me (for anything), he has to be paying SOMEHOW - either with time, or with creativity. Money is least impressive to me since I have my own; but he can't just expect a 'free ride' without courting in some manner.

At the same time, when I court a man, and that includes spending money on him, I expect some reciprocation - and again, it doesn't have to be financial since I have my own money, but it has to be either with time, creativity or effort in some manner. Or else I lose interest. Who wants to be the one doing all the work?

To be honest, some men have no idea how to keep the attention of a woman and show interest if money is off the table. Or, they have the attitude that if they pay, they are owed something. That's why I prefer to keep money out of it if a personal relationship is on the table.

If a man just flat out wants something S&M related from me and doesn't want to invest time OR effort, it becomes a transaction anyway, so you may as well state it as such.

My preference, now, for outside partners, is a man who gracefully allows me to pay for everything, including toys, travel and expenses, but makes no demands of me in return. It's actually hard to find such a man when seeking chemistry also. But I did it once and can do it again!

Akasha



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