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Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 2:34:01 AM

Hippiekinkster

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Reason being that
"The obvious answer is that rich people have political clout—but can it really be so simple? A growing mound of evidence suggests that while wealthy people’s preferences may not be the only factor in political decision-making, it’s a worrisomely important one. In a recent study, Princeton political scientist Larry Bartels found that senators outright ignored the views of their least advantaged constituents while catering to the preferences of the wealthy. Princeton’s Martin Gilens has also found that policy changes reflect the preferences of the most affluent, while the preferences of poor and middle-income Americans have almost no bearing.

Politicial scientists Lawrence Jacobs and Benjamin Page have found that the preferences of foreign policymakers correspond more to the preferences of executives of multinational companies than to the general public. Page and Jeffrey Winters estimate that the top 10 percent of income earners hold about 90 percent of materially based political power, and that “each member of the top 1 percent averaged more than 100 times the power of a member of the bottom 90 percent; about 200 times if the index is calculated in terms of the more politically relevant non-home wealth.” These numbers are staggering, and should be seriously troubling to anyone who thinks political equality worth defending. Indeed, by Page and Winter’s definition of oligarchy as “the extreme political inequalities that necessarily accompany extreme material inequalities,” it’s pretty hard to argue that the United States isn’t an oligarchic society. "
http://www.alternet.org/story/150715/the_public_overwhelmingly_wants_it%3A_why_is_taxing_the_rich_so_hard?akid=6882.232977.bZ2aRI&rd=1&t=17

I have no stake in a country where I have no voice.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

Post #: 1

RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 4:06:20 AM

Termyn8or

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Neither did Merc, and he had money, just not enough. This has been going on for longer than any of us has been alive.

It's what the south figured out back in eighteen something. It's what drove separatists to do what they did. Racisn schmacism, it came down to money. It always came down to money. Over the last couple centuries it's been like a poker game in which the winners hold their aces for use in subsequent hands. We have to give back the aces. As the game goes on it's obvious what happens.

Old Jim's been drinking whiskey, playing poker on a losing night. Pretty soon old Jim starts thinking, somebody's been cheatin me right.... shot his friend right between the eyes. Well people who cheat you are not your friend, and the fact that they portrayed the well deserved revenge as something bad is why that group will never be played in My house, and will not reside on any form of media here either. If the ballot box ever mattered, it really didn't. If we really had a choice of political candidates none of them would have the balls to stand up to the threats and the integrity to refuse the bribes (maybe one but not both). Oops, I mean lobbyists.

Over the years there have been lobbyists who worked for the People, but they have been shut down. People say I'm wrong about alot of shit and in time they will find otherwise. I said that environmental regulations are passed with the good graces of those who are regulated (in big business). No auto manufacturer has been unable to comply with emission standards and I don't think any have even been unable to comply with CAFE. Those things got passed when they could be applied, for the purpose of making competition more difficult. More recently a drug made by a small company has been taken away by a big company, and they sent a letter telling the small fry to cease and desist selling this product, even though they fucking invented it.

What gives them the right ? You already gave the answer. Look at each and every thing the government does with a jaundiced eye, and it comes clear. They do not work for us and never have. And unless we find some weakness to exploit, and get and remain ruthless in that regard they never will work for us. They take. That's all they know how to do. Their associates mislead and brainwash the public into wrecking their own lives in one way or another. They cripple us with inadequate education, which they never should've been allowed to control. Ever. But people don't see it that way because they were born into it.

Let's say you were born in prison, and have to live out your entire life there. Really it's not much worse than certain foreign countries. But they control all you see and hear and you never ever get out. That is your life. And it is. Getting a passport is like being a trustee. Extra work can get you extra food. But it won't get you anywhere.

No stake in this country ? I have no problem with that. In fact I encourage you to do whatever you want about it. But there is one problem. See these scumbags existed way before this country did, and the original idea was to get away from them. Of course the founding Fathers were aristocrats, but they had an idea. An idea who's time had come. It passed away quickly. The scumbags followed them here and the end result is nothing.

The fact is they are in most other countries as well, so you will not have a voice there either. Freedom of speech means nothing if you can't get anyone to listen.

Jefferson I believe recommended a revolution every twenty years. I'm starting to think he was right. We are late.

T^T

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 2

RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 4:27:31 AM

Sanity

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Why shouldnt hard working successful people have more influence over government than 24/7/365 partiers and the lazy. Government shouldnt rob from one to provide for those who would rather not provide for themselves, see my "Whites" thread. According to the documentary everyone in that family gets signed up for Social Security "crazy checks" which enable the dysfunctional Whites to live the insane lifestyles that they do.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Termyn8or)

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RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 4:54:08 AM

DomYngBlk

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Because dimwit, you can't show me one "hard working" american that hasn't benefited from the taxes of the rest. Or the ability of the rest to shoulder a gun and make sure that their "hard work" was taken care of.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 4

RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 5:30:24 AM

Edwynn

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Most hardworking people produce something valuable to society, whatever the income derived from it. Whatever fatuous notions to the contrary.

Unfortunately there are a relatively few who work hard to bring harm to society. One of the things they work hardest at is gaining government influence for nefarious ends. The mega mergers of banks and oil companies didn't happen overnight. Passage of the Enron Loophole took a lot of diligence. Getting corporation employees and corporate lobbyists into the VP spot and several cabinet positions and as head of government regulatory agencies took hard work and great perseverance.

But the payoff has been spectacular by any historical comparison, for those few.

The oil mergers increased size and concentration so enormously as to attain the power to install enough of their people into the government to send our troops to go get them some more oil fields.

The Enron Loophole caused power outages and skyrocketing prices in Cali that put more than a few companies out of business and caused a few heat deaths. Then the CDOs came and cost many to lose homes, cost 8 million jobs, which caused more home loss.

Oh, and by the way, those former Enron energy traders are working in the oil futures pits now, the same loophole named after them still in place.

Notice anything about gas prices lately?

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/26/2011 5:31:38 AM >

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 5

RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 5:51:57 AM

Termyn8or

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"Why shouldnt hard working successful people have more influence over government than 24/7/365 partiers and the lazy."

Well they should, somewhat. But all of it ? And to use it to fatten their pockets at the expense of people who do work hard and get fucked over ? And those who execise this influence are not those I would call hard working. Ever work in a factory ?

The partiers should not be subsidised of course, just leave them to their own device. But not every one of them is a dolt who only votes for more entitlement. I party plenty, you think I should not have any influence ? If so I disagree of course.

If the wealth we produce is not stolen from us, we will have our own money on which to party, or whatever we want. Like plan for the future. If not for the intentional inflation people could save for their own retirement. Think before SS. Just what could you do with 15.2% of your lifetime earnings, barring inflation of course ? Quite a bit I bet. You would probably have a nice slush fund.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 4/26/2011 5:53:28 AM >

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 6

RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:01:42 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why shouldnt hard working successful people have more influence over government than 24/7/365 partiers and the lazy. Government shouldnt rob from one to provide for those who would rather not provide for themselves, see my "Whites" thread. According to the documentary everyone in that family gets signed up for Social Security "crazy checks" which enable the dysfunctional Whites to live the insane lifestyles that they do.

They do currently, in several legitimate ways.

1. They vote.
2. They contribute to campaigns, either by volunteering, or by contributing financially.
3. They seek to educate others.

Sanity, your position has a conundrum in it. The government has a responsibility to act in the interests of its people. You are emphasizing the people's responsibility to act in the interests of their government. What do we do when neither one happens?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Sanity)

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RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:14:49 AM

tj444

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Well, duh. Rich people have the $ to contribute to political campaigns and to hire & pay lobbyists to further their interests. How much $ have you ever contributed to a political campaign??? What politician is going to bite the hand that feeds them???

Also, rich people can vote with their feet, they have options. If a country becomes to expensive, they can just take their $ and move to a different country. Can poor people do that? Nope, they are stuck.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

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RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:25:50 AM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Why shouldnt hard working successful people have more influence over government than 24/7/365 partiers and the lazy. Government shouldnt rob from one to provide for those who would rather not provide for themselves, see my "Whites" thread. According to the documentary everyone in that family gets signed up for Social Security "crazy checks" which enable the dysfunctional Whites to live the insane lifestyles that they do.

Just how 'hard' somebody works is irrelevant. The founding of the US was based on govt. at the consent of all of the governed...not just those 'hard working' and or wealthy. Let us not forget now, the more money one has, the more free speech [sic] they have. All of the founding fathers save Hamilton were fervently against the corporation having seen how they and the crown had become so corrupt.

Money has become a constitutionally protected 'speech' a new form of influence. That really tells me all I need to know and it allows the dysfunctional rich to live the truly and insanely rich lifestyles they do.

Add to that the very concept of the richest 400 filers this year having an average income in 2010 of $335 Million (EACH) or a total of $13+ Billion...paid an actual 17% federal tax. This is directly as a result of laws they sought taxing their special income as something called capital gains, carried interest whatever those are, or dividends.

The rest of us 'hard working' Americans typically pays about 35% of their pedestrian swill, called income from wages, tips and salaries. The difference in the 'name' of various income and the tax rate...is no accident, it is their for the purpose it serves...lower the taxes of the truly rich to half of the most others pay.

(in reply to Sanity)

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RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:25:50 AM

Edwynn

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What he was actually saying is that he is incapable of comprehending what the article in the OP says and has no idea what all those numbers and fancy words mean.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

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RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:26:41 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

Also, rich people can vote with their feet, they have options. If a country becomes to expensive, they can just take their $ and move to a different country. Can poor people do that? Nope, they are stuck.

Yeah, I've heard that argument. But in practicality, I've never seen it happen. I've seen wealthy executives take jobs in other countries, and the factor of living might have been a factor, but never the sole factor, and they never move to isolated countries with no amenities.

The really mobile people are retirees, who frequently relocate where their money lasts longer, but for some odd reason nobody ever talks about the need to keep retirees in the US, just the rich.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to tj444)

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RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:30:14 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

Also, rich people can vote with their feet, they have options. If a country becomes to expensive, they can just take their $ and move to a different country. Can poor people do that? Nope, they are stuck.

Load of crap fed to you by Republicans and paid for by RICH People. Where, may I ask, are they going to go? Where, are they going to find a country and protects them as we do? No where. They need to pay for the privelidge...

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 12

RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:36:22 AM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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As if theres anything new here to comprehend - its the same tired Leninist class envy sermon.

It didnt work for the Soviet Union nor is it working for Cuba or Venezuela, and it will not work here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

What he was actually saying is that he is incapable of comprehending what the article in the OP says and has no idea what all those numbers and fancy words mean.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 4/26/2011 6:53:42 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:36:24 AM

tj444

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how many rich people set up corporations in Ireland cuz the tax was considerably less than setting up in the US? What about Google? That corp pays even less tax (I think I read it was something like 2%) than most US rich people/corporations. Btw, I dont differentiate between rich people and rich corporations, to me they are the same- both have $ and options.

So how much $ does a retire that moves take with them? $500/m to live well in some countries? No wonder no one considers their leaving as a threat. I dont find most retires do that, they dont generally want to be that far away from their families and long time friends. They have a comfort level where they are, people dont like the unknown and living in another country is a huge unknown, it scares the crap out of most people.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 14

RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:38:12 AM

Termyn8or

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Dubai for one. They have an indoor skiing range there. Cost Rica. They not only have one of the most favorable exchange rates, but they have a bar right in the jail. If you even get a grand a month you can live quite well. Problem is you can't make any money there. Iceland, up until recently.

They can leave. But there comes a time that maybe we should consider letting them, or even forcing them. We ain't getting that money back anyway. You find a guest stealing your shit you throw him the fuck out of your house. Fuck getting it back, just stop the loss. We'll be fine. Default on the national debt, take our licking and start ticking.

I know it's a big pain in the ass, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. Nothing will make them give it back.

Bitch about the TV not working as you eat filet mignon.

T^T

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

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RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:40:03 AM

Sanity

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It depends on how bad it gets here, theres certainly a tipping point and it doesnt happen all at once. See my Shell Oil / EPA thread for the latest example of leftists pushing industry out and destroying jobs as well as prouction, and harming our trade imbalances even further.

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:41:26 AM

DomYngBlk

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So you figure the Rich have up and left and are headed for Dubai....A small country with no army that is hoping that a corrupt monarchy that is supported strictly by the USA....keeps them in power and safe....

Costa Rica, Supported and kept safe by which Army, which country? Come on now....you'll think of it.....

Iceland? come on now Term.....be serious.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 17

RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 6:58:33 AM

tj444

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army? gee, when was the last time Switzerland or Costa Rica or Iceland or Turks & Caicos or the Caymans or most "tax havens" invaded? They dont need a huge army in search of a war, what they have is all they need.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

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RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 7:30:55 AM

Termyn8or

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"So you figure the Rich have up and left and are headed for Dubai....A small country with no army that is hoping that a corrupt monarchy that is supported strictly by the USA....keeps them in power and safe.... "

Yup, why do you think Haliburton moved there ?

T^T

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

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RE: Tax the Rich? Hahaha no frakkin' way... - 4/26/2011 7:55:19 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why shouldnt hard working successful people have more influence over government than 24/7/365 partiers and the lazy. Government shouldnt rob from one to provide for those who would rather not provide for themselves, see my "Whites" thread. According to the documentary everyone in that family gets signed up for Social Security "crazy checks" which enable the dysfunctional Whites to live the insane lifestyles that they do.

Would you return to the British system of 300 years ago?

We have a little thing in a document that says "All Men Are Created Equal"

Your statement seems to want to wipe your ass with said document.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Sanity)

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