RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you?

RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/27/2011 10:58:40 AM)
My biggest problem is that religioun, per the religious right, has become too big of an influence within our government. Additionally, it has become unpatriotic to practice a religioun that the bulk of the American population feels is their religioun. I am a firm believer in separation of church and state. The biggest problem is that people want the freedom to do whatever they believe is correct yet get their undies all knotted up when someone that believes differently wishes to express their faith in an equal manner. In my mind, it's an all or nothing. This is a country literally founded on the idea that it's citizens have religious freedom. Not specifically Christian citizens. PC has gone too far, but so have the religious right. I don't give a flying fuck about the neighbours holiday manger scene or whatever crap they want to toss out into their yard. But if I want to put a giant, lit, plastic, vagina in my yard and call it part of my religioun.......I am going to fight for the right to display my own tacky crap just like they do.

kdsub -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/27/2011 12:49:44 PM)
I want the right to worship who, where, and how I want as long as I am within the laws of my country. My worship is my business and not yours or the governments. I want my government to follow the Constitution when it comes to religion period. I want my religion to stay out of politics. I want freedom of speech which includes the right to reach out for converts if I choose. You have the right to tell me to jump off a cliff if you so choose. Butch

thishereboi -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/27/2011 12:55:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: Putting a manger scene in your yard is one thing, demaning the public school or courthose display ine is another thing. I have heard of several instances of people demanding that they be taken down, but I can't think of any time I have heard of people demanding they be put up. http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/11/less_than_100_march_on_chamber.html I assume that settles that. Not really, they are trying to get something put back that was removed. Now if you can show me where a group went to a school/public building that had no display and demanded that they put one up, it would be settled. I wouldn't even be surprised, but I haven't heard of it happening yet.

DomKen -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/27/2011 2:37:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: Putting a manger scene in your yard is one thing, demaning the public school or courthose display ine is another thing. I have heard of several instances of people demanding that they be taken down, but I can't think of any time I have heard of people demanding they be put up. http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/11/less_than_100_march_on_chamber.html I assume that settles that. Not really, they are trying to get something put back that was removed. Now if you can show me where a group went to a school/public building that had no display and demanded that they put one up, it would be settled. I wouldn't even be surprised, but I haven't heard of it happening yet. That is what happened above. There was no manger and they paraded demanding one be put up. What happened before is really immaterial to your claim.

Selectivelight -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/27/2011 3:16:53 PM)
In response to the title question, and not the various topics within; Freedom of religion means having to listen to the various religious groups, (Christians above all others) piss and moan about how they don't get enough respect, while trying simultaneously to impose their will on legislature. Freedom of religion means I have to listen to pro-life, anti-muslim, xenophobic hate-mongering just about every time I read the news. I figure that about covers it. My faith, or lack thereof, is largely influenced by organized religion, which has done quite well at illuminating the real message of the various groups. "Give us your money, don't look behind the curtain."

Thirsty4Goddess -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/27/2011 4:31:06 PM)
One thing that I find interesting is that on the Westboro Baptist Chirch thread, nobody has complained about the governement interferrence in the religious practices of those sick fuckers of the WBC when city and county employees conspired to prevent them from expressing their religious views. Where are the people that maintain their right to express their religious views anywhere anytime? Are they not upset when they see other "conservative christians" being harrassed by the government?

EternalHoH -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/27/2011 4:42:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Freedom of religion. . . this means that I can practice whatever and whenever. Freedom FROM religion. . . means that there are elements of society that are blacking out religion because it may not be what they believe. 'Freedom of religion' should also include 'freedom from religion', i.e. the freedom to choose any one or none at all. I don't think the two are as mutually exclusive as you paint them to be. You appear to be frustrated by the 'freedom from religion' zealots largely because your religion over-reaches in the first place. They are simply zealously responding to your own religion's zealots. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Here is the deal. . . You can believe what the hell ever you want. You can have a maypole or a bull slaughtering. This also means that you need to shut up about my manger scene on the lawn. That is what freedom of religion means. Do what you will and you will leave mine alone. As long as your manger scene is held on private property, no problem. Enjoy it to your hearts content in peace and quiet. It will look really nice across the street from my maypole sitting on my private property. Move that manger into the public square, and YOUR religion is actively over-reaching. And that, rightly so, brings out the "Happy Holidays" warriors. The problem is you have (wrongly) gotten too accustomed to expecting the public sphere to actively support your religious beliefs that really should be confined to private property only. If local government elects to get involved and support your manger scene in a public park or support that Christmas play being held in your local public school, it must also support the concept of "equal opportunity and equal time" to all other religions when they come calling. Lucky for you that most minority religions simply have never came calling before now and never pressed your local government on the 'equal time' issue. And for some reason, their lack of activity has been inferred by the majority religion as some kind of 'exclusive right' to be actively supported by local government. Since the tolerance levels of most uneducated Americans is not where it should be when it comes to a statue of the Quaran in a public park, most municipalities simply opt out from participating with any religion when challenged to avoid any controversy or legal troubles. And that ends up being the right choice, especially when you cannot trust the average American to come to grips with the concept of 'equal time'. Active support of religion by local government requires that proper understanding among the people, and since that understanding it not guaranteed, the best thing for local government is to opt out. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays. Christmas break to Winter break. No manger scene in public school holiday winter programs. Merry Festivus. The three reindeer rule. The list goes on. Nobody ever said a painfully overdue civics lesson 234 years after the birth of the consitution was going to be a cakewalk. Who in the hell ever sold you on that idea? (P.S. I agree with that list 100% Every bit of it painfully reigns in over-reach that has been running amuk)

thishereboi -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 3:57:25 AM)
quote: That is what happened above. There was no manger and they paraded demanding one be put up. What happened before is really immaterial to your clai No it's not immaterial. I asked for a case where someone demanded that a display be put up. You provided on where the display had been removed and they were trying to get it back. Do you even read the links you provide. It was in the first 2 paragraphs. CHAMBERSBURG — They called themselves a Christian army, gathering Saturday to demand restoration of the Nativity scene to Chambersburg’s public square. Determined to “proclaim” more than protest, the demonstration was orderly bordering on solemn. The group of old and young — some holding signs, one with a large plastic replica of Joseph and another dressed as a shepherd — marched quietly around the circular square surrounding Memorial Fountain, where the nearly life-size creche had been displayed for nearly 50 Christmas seasons.

Real0ne -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 8:39:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I am a firm believer in separation of church and state. what is "separation of church and state"? quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse In my mind, it's an all or nothing. This is a country literally founded on the idea that it's citizens have religious freedom. Not specifically Christian citizens. you believe you have religious freedoms? what about the couple from the ME who killed their daughter according to their religious beliefs for adultery? Over there that would have passed over here they went to prison. how is that religious freedom? what is meant by separation from state

mnottertail -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 8:43:13 AM)
Easy, they had the freedom to do it, without intervention right up until they killed her or harmed her, and the state had the freedom to charge them with murder and incarcerate (and hopefully execute) the fucksticks. Freedom is not an absolute in any area or in any measure.

Real0ne -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 8:46:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Easy, they had the freedom to do it, without intervention right up until they killed her or harmed her, and the state had the freedom to charge them with murder and incarcerate (and hopefully execute) the fucksticks. Freedom is not an absolute in any area or in any measure. oh ok! you have to freedom to practice your religion and the state has the freedom to practice the religion they established and shoot you for it! got it LOL Oh and you are right! In so far as the definition of freedom under feudalism where freedom is swearing allegiance to the gubbmint religion! which freedom are you talking about here?

mnottertail -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 8:57:35 AM)
Asswipe. The definition is as valid under any form of government which is ubitquious on this planet.

MrRodgers -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 9:02:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I know where you stand on the issues Ed, no need to try to pretend any further as youve made it clear enough. As you've made abundantly clear...leftists whatever they are, are responsible for everything that is wrong with society and the world and righties whoever they are, are responsible for everything that is right in the world....facts will not never get in your way.

Real0ne -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 9:19:24 AM)
talk to the point or talk to the hand, your choice.

tazzygirl -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 9:26:36 AM)
talk to the hand? are you reverting back to your teens?

Owner59 -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 9:49:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thirsty4Goddess One thing that I find interesting is that on the Westboro Baptist Chirch thread, nobody has complained about the governement interferrence in the religious practices of those sick fuckers of the WBC when city and county employees conspired to prevent them from expressing their religious views. Where are the people that maintain their right to express their religious views anywhere anytime? Are they not upset when they see other "conservative christians" being harrassed by the government? 1st they came for the klansmen,,then they came for the neo-nazis,then they came for the fag haters at WBC. Who.......will be next? <que scary music>[8\|] On many occations, the "gov" (courts) have sided on behafe of the WBC,the KKK marchers,etc. No one at the WBC lost their freedom.A greiving family won some peace for a few moments to bury a loved one,is all. Let WBC sue if they`re so put upon.It`s a free country.[:D]

PeonForHer -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 10:15:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse PC has gone too far, but so have the religious right. I don't give a flying fuck about the neighbours holiday manger scene or whatever crap they want to toss out into their yard. But if I want to put a giant, lit, plastic, vagina in my yard and call it part of my religioun.......I am going to fight for the right to display my own tacky crap just like they do. The Right will then call your freedom to brandish that giant plastic vagina in the sensitive faces of your neighbours 'political correctness gone too far'. 'PC' is has come to mean little more than 'what righties don't like' these days.

DomKen -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 11:27:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: That is what happened above. There was no manger and they paraded demanding one be put up. What happened before is really immaterial to your clai No it's not immaterial. I asked for a case where someone demanded that a display be put up. You provided on where the display had been removed and they were trying to get it back. Do you even read the links you provide. It was in the first 2 paragraphs. CHAMBERSBURG — They called themselves a Christian army, gathering Saturday to demand restoration of the Nativity scene to Chambersburg’s public square. Determined to “proclaim” more than protest, the demonstration was orderly bordering on solemn. The group of old and young — some holding signs, one with a large plastic replica of Joseph and another dressed as a shepherd — marched quietly around the circular square surrounding Memorial Fountain, where the nearly life-size creche had been displayed for nearly 50 Christmas seasons. You said you had never heard of anyone demanding a manger be put up. In the above story was there a manger? No. Were people protesting to have one put up? Yes. It really couldn't be any simpler.

Real0ne -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 11:28:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 1st they came for the klansmen,,then they came for the neo-nazis,then they came for the fag haters at WBC. Who.......will be next? <que scary music>[8\|] On many occations, the "gov" (courts) have sided on behafe of the WBC,the KKK marchers,etc. No one at the WBC lost their freedom.A greiving family won some peace for a few moments to bury a loved one,is all. Let WBC sue if they`re so put upon.It`s a free country.[:D] If by freedom you mean feudal "enfranchisement" to serve the overloard gubbermint you are right! DING DING DING! you win! They were not disenfranchised from their overlord! Its so easy to get you people to prove my points! FREEDOM = LIBERTY = ENFRANCHISEMENT FOR 100 [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/blacks%202/FREEDOMETYMOLOGICALENGLISHDICTIONARY1745FREEDOM000.jpg[/image] ENFRANCHISEMENT = GUBBERMINT GRANTED RIGHTS FOR 250 [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/blacks%202/FREEDOMETYMOLOGICALWALKERENGLISHDICTIONARYFRANCHISE000.jpg[/image] Democracy and your neighbor CONTROLLING YOU "IS" FREEDOM for 500 [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/blacks/FREEDOMETYMOLOGICALENGLISHDICTIONARYenfranchise1689A.jpg[/image] Is the United States and the States therein Sovereign for 300 [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/blacks%202/FREEDOMETYMOLOGICALENGLISHDICTIONARYALLEGIENCE1749000.jpg[/image] OH AND LETS NOT FORGET THAT YOU DID PLEDGE, PAWN AND OFFER AS A SURETY YOUR ASS TO THAT FLAG DID YOU NOT? [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/blacks%202/FREEDOMETYMOLOGICALWALKERENGLISHDICTIONARYPLEDGE000.jpg[/image] IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE thanks for admitting that not only do you NOT have freedom of religion, neither do you have freedom of assembly, nor freedom of political association.

thishereboi -> RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? (4/28/2011 1:20:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: That is what happened above. There was no manger and they paraded demanding one be put up. What happened before is really immaterial to your clai No it's not immaterial. I asked for a case where someone demanded that a display be put up. You provided on where the display had been removed and they were trying to get it back. Do you even read the links you provide. It was in the first 2 paragraphs. CHAMBERSBURG — They called themselves a Christian army, gathering Saturday to demand restoration of the Nativity scene to Chambersburg’s public square. Determined to “proclaim” more than protest, the demonstration was orderly bordering on solemn. The group of old and young — some holding signs, one with a large plastic replica of Joseph and another dressed as a shepherd — marched quietly around the circular square surrounding Memorial Fountain, where the nearly life-size creche had been displayed for nearly 50 Christmas seasons. You said you had never heard of anyone demanding a manger be put up. In the above story was there a manger? No. Were people protesting to have one put up? Yes. It really couldn't be any simpler. You just can't admit your wrong, but go ahead and gnaw on that bone a bit longer. We both know you understood what I said.

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