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Edwynn -> SUCKERS ... (4/26/2011 11:25:33 PM)





Sorry, but that's just how it is. You take all this crap in the papers at face value, and here's what happens.  

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Financiers Switch to GOP

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703461504576231121265117538.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories



You fell for it, hook line and sinker.

The whole article is a diversionary tactic, the media doing their job in drawing our attention away from those doing the real harm and rather towards glitzy and easy targets.

Of course the hedge fund groups make enough money to attract the attention, but the real issue is that they piss off these huge banking and oil companies  greatly when it comes to pride, even though these few successful traders help their cause sometimes in the course of their business. For instance, Goldman Sachs and Enron and others go to all this trouble with their huge lobbying clout and campaign contributions to get things turned their way and go hog wild on energy trading till they blow that one out then come up with CDOs and flood the pension funds with that and the whole US with bogus sub-prime loans, and then this punk John Paulson sitting on the side with his lil' hedge fund just comes up and whips this $3 billion right out from under their nose after they did all the work. Oh yes, that pissed all the huge mega-investment banks off.

And then all those ex-Enron traders come over to the oil futures trading and steal that show too, after the oil companies spent years merging and reducing refining capacity to make way for them, such bare-minimum capacity the only thing making this level of speculation possible to begin with. But they just make their millions and walk away from it when it tanks, as they always have the freedom to do.

Just as background to the article, so you know.

To some specifics from the article:

"Hedge funds' biggest complaint involved a tax bill. Shortly after Mr. Obama's inauguration, he and some congressional Democrats were pushing a plan to block managers of hedge funds and private-equity funds from paying a low 15% capital-gains tax rate on part of their income."

"Fund managers largely were willing to accept such a change; most of their share of fund profits didn't qualify for treatment as long-term capital gains anyway, because they traded so rapidly. But they drew the line at another proposed change. The tax bill's writers worried that hedge-fund managers could avoid the highest tax rates by simply leaving their income in the fund, collecting it only when they eventually sold the fund itself. At that point, it clearly would qualify for the capital-gains rate, as profit on a sale of a long-held business. So, the tax bill's writers added a provision saying any profit from the sale of a hedge fund, a private-equity firm or other investment partnership would be taxed at the higher rates that apply to ordinary income. Fund managers despised that idea. "If you founded a hedge fund, when you sold it you were treated worse than if you owned a peep-show business," said John Raffaelli, a Democratic fund-raiser and lobbyist for the hedge-fund industry. Senate Democrats to whom fund managers had ties were hesitant to block the tax initiative, because it meshed with voter anti-Wall Street sentiment. Also, it could also mean as much as $2 billion of annual revenue. The tax initiative ultimately failed when a broader measure that it was part of didn't pass, and now it is essentially dead because of GOP control of the House. Before it failed, the tax measure won support from New York Democratic Sen. Charles Mr. Schumer, following an amendment he made in it."


First off, the complaint of the hedge funds is completely legitimate on the second point; why should they be singled out from any others in having to pay income rates for what is a capital gain/loss for any other business when it is sold? If their normal profit occurs from effective capital gains, then it should be taxed as income, as they agreed to. As was pointed out, this presents the possibility of avoiding a lot of that by leaving it in the fund until sold ... so fine, tax a portion of such future gain today every year. There are much more complicated schemes for tax avoidance, what's such a big deal about having a simpler scheme for tax responsibility? Just make it something reverse of the oil depletion allowance. It could effectively be something between the capital gains rate and the income rate, but in all events the treasury get's more up front and when the fund get's sold the companies can still be treated like normal when it comes to capital gains from the sale of the whole fund.

Note the last tiny item in the wsj report above ... 

"Before it failed, the tax measure won support from New York Democratic Sen. Charles Mr. Schumer, following an amendment he made in it."

Oh really? And what little tidbit of an amendment might that be?

wsj:  'Ha! That's not our job, kids! We are only here to rattle your cage! "Useful information?"

Oh please, Oh stop! ...... my guts hurt already ........... '


They left it at that and quickly deflected attention elsewhere.


So then let's just get to who might be behind all this.

Aside from interviews fishing for a few juicy clipped quotes, the sole source for all this is an outfit calling itself  Center For Responsive Politics, but going to the site we find an even more intriguing name ... opensecrets.org

Oh, I betcha that tells us all about the dirty little secrets about special interest groups and such, right? Here we go:

http://www.opensecrets.org/about/index.php

Wow, that sounds SO good, doesn't it? They look all 'non-partisan' an' all that stuff, right? Oh, can't wait to find out who all these scumbags are, can ya? The biggest of biggest wheeler dealers, the super money hungry grubbing hand-over-fisting bitches, right? Well, they got a nice push button for just such an occasion, the one called "Heavy Hitters", what you see in this list the biggest contributors of federal level campaigns from 1989 to present, according to OpenSecrets:

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/index.php

Top 10 Heavy Hitters: ActBlue $51,552,980 American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees $45,037,993 AT&T Inc $40,800,955 National Assn of Realtors $39,494,410 National Education Assn $36,188,345 Service Employees International Union $35,854,539 American Assn for Justice $33,664,771 Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $32,920,954 Laborers Union $31,183,767 American Federation of Teachers $31,021,128 View Full List

I'll pass on the 'Full List' proffered there (though I actually looked at it, just more of the same). But look at that! In 21 years, the teachers and municipal and union folks have completely taken over! Jus' lookit all that! The heavy hitters!


Let us now repair to Exon's site, to hear 'the rest of the story.'


http://www.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/about_issues_political.aspx


An excerpt:

 "In 2010, Exxon Mobil Corporation contributed a total of $396,000 to legislative and gubernatorial candidates and caucuses in 15 U.S. states."

"In the 2009-2010 election cycle, ExxonMobil’s employee- and retiree-funded political action committee (PAC) disbursed $1.2 million, mostly to federal candidates."

"In 2010, ExxonMobil reported lobbying expenses totaling $12.4 million in its public Lobby Disclosure Act report."

All from Exon's own site.

So much for all that "Heavy Hitter" button on the 'deepdarksecrets' or was that 'opensecrets' site, huh? Funny how the most profitable corporation in the world is more honest than opensecrets.org

Who's funding the 'deepsecrest' site?

http://www.opensecrets.org/about/funders.php
Oh sh#t! Where'd all those commie labor unions and teachers groups and small municipalities go in the "Heavy Hitters!" list we saw before? I hate it when that happens ... 



Oil is just luvin' the sh#t out of all this, and they thank you for your participation.



As I said ....


SUCKERS ............  






Based on data released by the FEC on March 27, 2011.





 



Termyn8or -> RE: SUCKERS ... (4/27/2011 12:39:16 AM)

Tisk tisk.

March 2011 ? How about March 1811. Or 1711. Or 1611. And so on.

They need a stern talkin to.

T^T



Edwynn -> RE: SUCKERS ... (4/27/2011 5:44:53 AM)



I'm sure people are not happy about this one being pointed out, even if for sake of pointing out what they themselves are incapable of noticing happens on a daily basis in the media.


quote:

Note the last tiny item in the wsj report above ... 

"Before it failed, the tax measure won support from New York Democratic Sen. Charles Mr. Schumer, following an amendment he made in it."



No expounding on just what the titillating amendment, which any but bats in daylight spot right off and would say "WTF!?".

It is amazing how the majority of university directed and academicians are so well trained  to overlook just such glaring holes as to glide right past them.


More of that "informed voter" thing at work here.

To be perfectly honest, if I had such an easily duped constituent of self-deluded readers that never question and so invariably and predictably overlook such glaring omissions as this, I'd keep doing it for 100 years too.  When it works it works.







Real0ne -> RE: SUCKERS ... (4/27/2011 6:35:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Tisk tisk.

March 2011 ? How about March 1811. Or 1711. Or 1611. And so on.

They need a stern talkin to.

T^T



ype!

change is an illusion!

and the beat goes on!

the names change to protect the guilty!

imagine what the landscape would look like if all trust funds and corporations worldwide were completely abolished tomorrow!

They are robbing us blind and its been governmentized so now its legal robbery.

and nobody seems to notice nobody seems to care.....






Termyn8or -> RE: SUCKERS ... (4/27/2011 6:42:58 AM)

"and nobody seems to notice nobody seems to care..... "

I am sooo close now. I mean of really being completely outside the system that I can smell it. I'll tell you what I've done sometime, but not right now. But by next year I wll be sitting pretty. I am no longer fucking around with these assholes and I am not going anywhere.

And I will have the resources to organize people, the People. Fuck what I've done, wait until you see what I do next once I'm finished with this little stage. I will be invisible. And no I'm not going to bomb anything.........lol.

T^T



Real0ne -> RE: SUCKERS ... (4/27/2011 6:57:53 AM)

of course the problem always comes in when people wind up fighting over a hot topic and in front of a really crooked judge.  you literally need to litigate the word "to", and "is" and "the" in order to win your case because most words have several over-lapping meanings and the priest in the black robe sitting on the bench above you can "presume" the meanings of the words (and that is precisely what they do), to your detriment and to their benefit.

Like a friend of mine said....  "the court/legal system is absolutely corrupt to the core and what the people understand the least about in government.........they are fearful of it and if they are brought in for whatever reason they are only too happy just to get out with their skin so it will never change."

A friend of his had a trespass case against the government, had all the law in place, all the citations, even by the supreme court AND LOST.   hint: (the court "by presumption" constructs a trust)



Edwynn -> RE: SUCKERS ... (4/27/2011 7:17:19 AM)



What some people don't seem to notice is that the fed works only in the US, but all other countries have central banks, and some countries operate quite well in spite of all that, and the major, number one thing that some fail to notice is that the number one thing that separates the better functioning from the less better functioning countries is that some people actually give a sh#t about their own citizens whereas in some other countries people only give a sh#t about how nobody can tell them what to do ever and they have a right to not pay any fucking penny for  the roads they drive on, the traffic lights that keep people from bashing into each other, the court system  and regulatory system that keeps the few corporations that would poison us even more if they could just get this 'gubmint' out of the way, and, we should ask, who needs to educate our kids, anyway? whutta we think we are, a developed country like Europe or something?

Oh sh#t! Don't make me look anywhere outside my own country, lest I see other systems that actually work that would shoot 1,000 holes in all this allodial sovereignty and 'gubmint religion atheism' crap that is utterly meaningless to history or to anybody else in the developed and, while we're at it, much better functioning nations in the world.

"A friend of his had a trespass case against the government, had all the law in place, all the citations, even by the supreme court AND LOST.   hint: (the court "by presumption" constructs a trust) "

Oh man, you mean that someone else aside from yourself who gives a crap about himself, and himself only, met up with another who operates and conducts himself likewise in the court system?

What an injustice!




That's all for now.




Real0ne -> RE: SUCKERS ... (4/28/2011 7:41:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
Oh sh#t! Don't make me look anywhere outside my own country, lest I see other systems that actually work that would shoot 1,000 holes in all this allodial sovereignty and 'gubmint religion atheism' crap that is utterly meaningless to history or to anybody else in the developed and, while we're at it, much better functioning nations in the world.

oh the last thing you want is for people to own their property free and clear!  I think people like you need to be taxed for breathing because you are polluting my fucking air, and when you walk down the street you are blocking my fucking view among a host of other reasons.


"A friend of his had a trespass case against the government, had all the law in place, all the citations, even by the supreme court AND LOST.   hint: (the court "by presumption" constructs a trust) "

Oh man, you mean that someone else aside from yourself who gives a crap about himself, and himself only, met up with another who operates and conducts himself likewise in the court system?

What an injustice!

That's all for now.


yeh it was an injustice they had no rightful business being there.  but I am sure you feel that everyone elses property should be shared but yours.



Termyn8or -> RE: SUCKERS ... (4/30/2011 5:46:59 AM)

Way to derail a thread RealO.

Point is money doesn't necessarily win an election. Sure helps, more ads, more people to find dirt on the opponent, more money to influence the media, but it isn't the whole story. I think they probably supported Obama because they knew damn well McCain couldn't win with all the money in the world.

So what it amounts to is a pre-bribe, or pre-lobbying. If they really supported one side, why give a fucking dime to the other side ? Doesn't it seem like a waste of money ? Money that they hold so dear ?

In light of that, since "someone" seems to know all about the crown and all that, how about the laws regarding campaign contributions and lobbyists in the UK. As bad as the evil crown may be, those people have health care, effective oversight of the media and seemingly less of the problems we have. How is this possible ?

England by itself has a much smaller economy than the US, and most of these backdoor deals have international players. You would think their influence would be greater by orders of magnitude. How about the tax rates in the UK ? High as hell but the people pay, possibly because they percieve some benefit. What about the corporations ? What do they pay ? I don't think they get off as easy as they do here. Why ?

Maybe they do get off easy. Maybe someone has some information about that. And a simple glance at a website is not going to tell the whole story. What is deductible and what is not ? Makes a difference.

Sometimes it makes more sense to find out what went on it 1990 rather than 1790. IIRC LadyEllen had a trucking company and if I'm not mistaken it went out of business. Of course that happens all the time here. But then BP had enough money to buy one of our largest oil companies. If the taxes are so oppressive, how could that be ? I still doubt they are as coddled as they are here, and in perspective that seems to show that big business can pay their fair share and make money. It's a matter of greed at that point. 

Chris Rock, in a routine said something about perspective. On divorce "If you make a million and she gets half you are still alright, but if you make thirty thousand......". This is always going to operate in favor of the bigger entity. Regressive tax rates don't work all that well to level the field when you have deductions for jets, yachts, ponies, golf courses and so forth. I'd really like to know.

What I would like to know more though is about their bribery laws pertaining to campaign donations and lobby money. If you can come up with say ten million to bribe a bunch of people and it saves you fifty million in taxes you would have to be a fool not to make the "investment".

Every time they talk about taxes they talk about personal income taxes. The validity of same is not within the scope of this text, suffice it to say most pay. As such, people being selfish will vote for anyone who will give them more entitlements personally and/or tax them less personally. All the while tax code is being reformed in the image of the large conglomerate, subject to it's whims. We normal people will never be able to pay enough to get this debt down. Ever. Very rarely (the recent example excepted) does a politician run on the stance of taxing the living shit out of banks, insurance companies, drug companies. Once in a while, but usually they just hawk lowering taxes on the nearly nonexistent middle class.

T^T



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