natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer

natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (Full Version)

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defiantbadgirl -> natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/29/2011 10:28:43 PM)
Natural disasters happen all over the world, but they're even worse in countries without single-payer health care. Most have probably heard about the devistating tornado outbreak in the eastern US. Many people are injured and their homes are destroyed. Because US citizens lack single-payer health care, they have to pay outrageous insurance premiums and co-pays if they have insurance at all. Because of this, many homeowners may have to spend their home owners insurance settlements on hospital bills instead of rebuilding. Renters may have to choose between finding another place to live or paying the hospital. If they don't have the money to pay the hospital right away, their credit will be ruined and they may have a hard time finding an apartment since so many landlords do credit checks. If they do find an apartment and the hospital takes them to court to have their wages garnished, they may be evicted for non payment of rent and then they'll have an eviction on their rental record, another thing landlords often check. Experiencing a natural disaster is bad enough without having to worry about outrageous medical bills.

Fellow -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/29/2011 11:27:54 PM)
Looking simply from the financial point of view (insurance) asking for a single-payer system can mean two things: 1) assumption that private insurance is more expensive, 2) single payer system allows stealth distribution of tax money into the system (redistribution of wealth). In practice, the last reason is more important as about half of Americans do not make enough income to afford high level health care. The inevitable consequence of a single-payer system would be price control, rationing, and increase in fraud. Totally nationalized system would be better in terms of cost. Pro-profit health care providers are reducing affordability very efficiently. Everybody knows the absurdity of the pricing (shameless, naked fraud) in medical facilities.

Termyn8or -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/29/2011 11:36:57 PM)
"and increase in fraud" Those four words pretty much sum it up. These poor insurance companies lose so much money from people needing care, I don't see how they stay in business. That's why they manipulated the government to get everyone into the "pool". Think I'm kidding ? Why aren't health care insurers lobbying against health care reform ? I will not participate in this. I will not pay the fines. When they put me in prison for that, they will give me free medical. I win. Single payer ? Not going to happen. Just watch and see. T^T

DeviantlyD -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 5:24:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow Looking simply from the financial point of view (insurance) asking for a single-payer system can mean two things: 1) assumption that private insurance is more expensive, 2) single payer system allows stealth distribution of tax money into the system (redistribution of wealth). In practice, the last reason is more important as about half of Americans do not make enough income to afford high level health care. The inevitable consequence of a single-payer system would be price control, rationing, and increase in fraud. Totally nationalized system would be better in terms of cost. Pro-profit health care providers are reducing affordability very efficiently. Everybody knows the absurdity of the pricing (shameless, naked fraud) in medical facilities. You don't think fraud happens with the current system in the USA? Private health care is a for profit system, which means stock holders are ultimately deciding what health care the insured user gets access to. It's obscene. If I didn't have my employer paying for my health care insurance, I would leave. Even as it is, it's very limited. The number of people who are not insured is approaching 20%. Unbelievable! I can only imagine it getting worse and not better. The health care insurance system in this country is broken, there is no doubt about it. Leaving it as is as good as sticking one's head in the sand. It needs improvement. There has got to be a change. You know the irony of all of this? Illegals seem to be the most knowledgeable about manipulating the system and getting government paid health insurance. For anyone in the USA to believe the status quo is the way to go is only fooling themselves.

DeviantlyD -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 5:34:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or These poor insurance companies lose so much money from people needing care, I don't see how they stay in business. You're kidding, right? http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthCare/health-insurers-post-record-profits/story?id=9818699 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/15/health-insurance-companie_n_539572.html http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/06/the_truth_about_the_insurance.html

ArizonaBossMan -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 5:37:02 AM)
Socialism enslaves. Good grief, the same tired arguments. 2012 can't come fast enough to clean out the rubbish in DC and elsewhere.

Termyn8or -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 5:55:45 AM)
"You're kidding, right?" Yes, you may calibrate your sarcasm detector by that. T^T

Termyn8or -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 5:57:08 AM)
"2012 can't come fast enough to clean out the rubbish in DC and elsewhere. " Why bother ? It just gets replaced with more trash. T^T

Edwynn -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 5:59:21 AM)
"Socialism enslaves." Somebody let you out of the cage and this is how you show your gratitude. We suppose then that every country aside from the US being described as a "developed economy," which designation becomes ever more questionable for the US, that all have a full coverage health care system of some sort, are all enslaved then. That is, the US is the only as yet non-enslaved developed economy. In some of them, the lowest paid workers are not nearly as low paid, they have benefits from the start, the typical worker makes as much or more than counterparts in the US, they work a couple less hours a week, have typically two more weeks of vacation per year for the same years at the company, and have more money saved after all that. What kind of work isn't slavery? Here's the difference; in the US they tell you that it isn't, when it actually is, so that dupes like you accept less by falling for the delusion. Other countries just acknowledge the reality and their workers demand a better deal for it.

RacerJim -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 6:05:24 AM)
"Never let a good crisis go to waste" -- Rahm Emanuel

tazzygirl -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 6:36:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "You're kidding, right?" Yes, you may calibrate your sarcasm detector by that. T^T That post made me turn mine way down... my meter went off the scale!

mnottertail -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 6:54:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim "Never let a good crisis go to waste" -- Rahm Emanuel We lay waste to everything. The neo-cons.

vincentML -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 8:27:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan Socialism enslaves. Good grief, the same tired arguments. 2012 can't come fast enough to clean out the rubbish in DC and elsewhere. Riiiiiight. . . . i see the governors of Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, etc strenuously fighting against Federal assistance while praising the Republican Congress's cuts in FEMA funding. It's our disaster, damn it, keep your Big Govt Socialist hands off it!!! Resist enslavement. Naked sarcasm intended.

popeye1250 -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 10:27:19 AM)
And isn't it ironic that the taxdollars of the half without health insurance in this country are spent by our govt. building hospitals in "developing" countries.

tazzygirl -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 10:42:27 AM)
What isnt ironic is how prevantative medicine is always cheaper than curative. Its the curative base that drives up cost, which is why we are in the condition we are in today.

vincentML -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 12:46:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What isnt ironic is how prevantative medicine is always cheaper than curative. Its the curative base that drives up cost, which is why we are in the condition we are in today. Ahhh. . . unless you run a gym not much profit in preventative medicine is there? [:)]

tazzygirl -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 1:07:50 PM)
Why is it everyone believes preventative medicine begins at the gym? An example. Someone has diabetes. Its treatment is now curative.... but is it? Its also preventative in that you now need to prevent the other damage that the disease process can bring along, such as kidney failure, nerve and eye damage. Preventative medicine is just that, preventing a disease. You CAN prevent a desease by treating one.

vincentML -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 1:27:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why is it everyone believes preventative medicine begins at the gym? An example. Someone has diabetes. Its treatment is now curative.... but is it? Its also preventative in that you now need to prevent the other damage that the disease process can bring along, such as kidney failure, nerve and eye damage. Preventative medicine is just that, preventing a disease. You CAN prevent a desease by treating one. i did not say it begins in a gym. Nope. Look again, taz. I said that was a way to profit from it, implying that pharmaceutical medicine is profit motivated. Please go back and retreive your sarcasm detector.

tazzygirl -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 1:39:38 PM)
quote: i did not say it begins in a gym. Nope. Look again, taz. I said that was a way to profit from it, implying that pharmaceutical medicine is profit motivated. Please go back and retreive your sarcasm detector. Its the first comment directed when I speak about preventative medicine. And I still disagree with you. Its how its viewed, that disease can be prevented with simple diet and exercise. Some can, most cannot. Nor do I have my sarcasm detector turned up, T made sure of that a few posts ago. I asked you why people believed gyms were the answer. Owning a gym does make a profit... so does treatment if you really look at the numbers. Most people are treated curatively. Example, treating a stroke instead of preventing one by treating the high bp. 400 dollars, potentially, between Dr visits and bp meds, if the full and current price is paid without a prescription plan, is still cheaper than treating a stroke, which most hospitals end up writing off for indigent patients anyways.

vincentML -> RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer (4/30/2011 3:19:08 PM)
quote: Owning a gym does make a profit... so does treatment if you really look at the numbers. Most people are treated curatively. Example, treating a stroke instead of preventing one by treating the high bp. 400 dollars, potentially, between Dr visits and bp meds, if the full and current price is paid without a prescription plan, is still cheaper than treating a stroke, which most hospitals end up writing off for indigent patients anyways. Okay. I do not disagree with this. But can't bp be treated curatively by serious change in diet and exercise? In some cases? Many cases? Most cases? Would you agree/not agree that the existence of high tech medicine makes it the imperative default choice amongst doctors today in preventative protocol. Not my field but that is what i have heard. Would welcome your insights.

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