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What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 4:07:18 PM   
DaddyDomnCOLO


Posts: 15
Joined: 10/3/2004
Status: offline 		OK, new question... a Daddy/Dom has a younger sub move in with him. He finds out shortly (less than a month) that he has cancer and may need radical treatment to battle the disease. He decides that the safest place for his lil girl is back at home with her mom & dad. This obviously feels like betrayal to the lil girl (she is 19) and she begins behaving badly. In short time she tells her Daddy that she loves him, but and I quote... " I cant trust you and you treat me so badly. I love you and I may want to come back but I need to go online and see if I can find someone that will treat me better and if I dont find anyone I will come back". Ok here is the question for any Dom, Domme or sub... Even though you love them and know that you can care for them the best (the cancer is being handled with surgery instead of chemo), what do you do?

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 4:43:42 PM   
smile2cu


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/21/2004
From: Dayton, OH
Status: offline 		About 2 weeks ago I had a radical prostatectomy. I've posted about it under Health and Safety, Prostate Surgery. I'm doing very well, and am in very little pain, but I understand that it varies considerably from person to person. If I can be of any help, please feel free to send a message or post.

Depending on the stage of the cancer, and whether they expect to get it entirely, I'm not sure that sending her home to mom & dad was appropriate, considering she's of age and sounds like she cares for you.

At this point, however, your only option is to hope she doesn't find someone and comes back.

Since you have someone who cares even when you're ill, my advice, which of course is worth every penny you paid for it, would be to humbly beg her pardon. Couldn't hurt. I realize your intentions were good, but you know what they say about good intentions.

In any case, the best of luck to you, and I repeat, if I can be of any help at all, please let me know.

~smile~

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 4:44:59 PM   
MaitresseEden


Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline 		Sounds like emotional blackmail to me!.

Ms. Eden.

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"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 4:49:41 PM   
DaddyDomnCOLO


Posts: 15
Joined: 10/3/2004
Status: offline 		Oh believe me, I have apologised... so many times that she has acused me of not being a Dom. Im leaning toward Ms Eden (ty for your opinion) I see it more as blackmail than love. Thanks to all for your thoughts...

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 4:51:46 PM   
theroebabe


Posts: 3155
Joined: 7/25/2004
Status: offline 		Well if it were me i would probaby behave badly too. But thats only if i knew all the info and if you didnt let me put in my two cents. I think you need if you are able to take some time and talk with her and see what she wants to do and then decide.

Recovery is a hard road and sometimes its nice to have someone around even if it is just for a hug or to make you a meal.

Be well. good luck in your surgery and i hope things work out.

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Roe

People always ask me why I do these things . . .
It's because I can!

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 4:52:56 PM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		Okay... speaking as a person with some serious abandonment issues, let me weigh in by agreeing wholeheartedly with both smile2CU and Maitresse Eden. Her response is essentially emotional blackmail, but in all likelihood she did percieve being sent back home as a betrayal by her daddy. Being the "adult" in this relationship, if she is important to you, the first step would be to beg her pardon and try to get her back. The next step would be to inform her that such an outburst is not appropriate, and that measures will be taken to ensure her good behavior in the future. This simultaneously reassures the sub that daddy really does care, while at the same time helping to prevent future outbursts of misbehavior. Daddy has to make it very clear to her that while he cares about his little girl, daddy is not well and may not be able to take care of her in quite the way that she wants him to. This does not mean that she isn't daddy's number one girl ,and it was just as hard for him to do this as it was for her to accept it. After all - Daddy is supposed to know best, right?

By the way - I love your sig line...

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Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 4:57:53 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		Based strictly on what you wrote, expecially the quote from her, it sounded to me like a 19 year old kid throwing a pissy little fit. So before doing anything I'd wait and see if she says the same thing after she's had time to calm down and really think about it.

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 5:05:50 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		Well, if you agree with Eden, you aren't going to like my response. Her attitude is just what I would expect from any teenager who has been hurt in a relationship. That the person looked at you as a *daddy*, and you would send them away makes you an uncaring (thus poor) parent IMO. As a dominant to do that, it says *don't trust me, 'cause at the first sign of difficulty I'm packing you up and sending you off.*

It is not that I condone her behavior, but if you are going to chose someone who is that young, don't be surprised when they behave that young.

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Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 5:11:41 PM   
smile2cu


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/21/2004
From: Dayton, OH
Status: offline 		You're getting some good thoughts here.

I thought Suleiman had a good perspective on this. Perhaps better than just apologizing, especially if, as you say, you've done that repeatedly.

~smile~

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 5:27:43 PM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smile2cu

You're getting some good thoughts here.

I thought Suleiman had a good perspective on this. Perhaps better than just apologizing, especially if, as you say, you've done that repeatedly.

~smile~


Like I said - I have some serious abandonment issues. I can see where the young'n might be tempted to throw a snit, but I also know how important is is for daddy to keep control. It is essentially emotional blackmail, but it is (as Estrict points out) a reasonable response from her. Some times, especially in a D/s relationship, it is important to keep a firm hand as a dominant. I've been on the recieving end of emotional blackmail. It's no fun and it quickly escalates. Daddy's got to acknowledge the situation, because he's the daddy, but he's also got to put his foot down and make it clear that he did what he did for a good reason. That's just part of the dynamic that has been established in the relationship (based, admittedly, on a purely cursory level of information as given in this thread).

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to smile2cu)
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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 5:43:16 PM   
MaitresseEden


Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline 		Well, In addition to the "emotional blackmail" it sounds to me as if there is little understand of what you were going through at the time you told her to move back home. LEarning one has cancer is a MAJOR shock and has within it, it's own set of emotions and grieving. Yes, I can see where she could have percieved betrayal, but an Adult is also going to understanding of the circumstances in which said decisions were made. You asked... what do you do? My answer is this.. Take care of yourself first and foremost, and if she wishes to take care of you, with the emotional blackmail and your still want her then allow her to do so. HOWEVER, At this time in your treatment the added responsibility of having to take care of her may not be what you need... of course.. everyone is free to disagree with me. I've never understoon the whole Daddy/girl relationship thing, but one thing I do understand is grief and the emotions that come with illness. Above all else, anyone or anything that makes you feel worse about yourself isn't worth investing time into.

Ms. Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 5:46:44 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Daddy's got to acknowledge the situation, because he's the daddy, but he's also got to put his foot down and make it clear that he did what he did for a good reason.


Unfortunately, that's part of the problem. He broke trust, betrayed her in essence. He may have *felt* he was doing what was the best thing, but it would be a hard thing to convince me of in her situation. I wouldn't resort to the playing it both ways, but if Master *forced* me to leave in a situation like that (and trust me, there would be lots of yelling and screaming, since I plan on being with him for the rest of my life), I would be very hard pressed to trust again.

In this situation it could be even worse, and I would like to know *her* side. Did her parents know and approve of the relationship? If they did, they would probably then have a problem with her going back to someone who kicks her out at signs of trouble. If they didn't approve, she got a lot of *I told you so's* and again, they would not trust this man who is as old or older than her own father most likely.

I have an 18 year old, and as a parent I would fight tooth and nail to keep my child away from someone who has shown they will throw back my child like that. I also have a 17 year old and am raising a 2 year old. I am very strict yet very loving. But I when *I* am wrong, I am not going to tell my children they aren't allowed to react. Yes, I will make them stop when they *overreact*, but I would have to take MY share of the responisibility for doing something so damaging to them too....

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Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 6:00:36 PM   
DaddyDomnCOLO


Posts: 15
Joined: 10/3/2004
Status: offline 		I appreciate everyones comments and ideas. I dont want anyone to think I sent her away lightly like a discard. I was more concerned that depending upon my condition and the treatment they gave, I wouldnt be able to be there at all, Anyone that has had a relative (for me it was my own dad) go thru cancer treatment may understand what I was feeling... But how many times do I admit my mistake and as to make amends... maybe the question should be... Are Doms always perfect, do we never make a mistake? Thanks again one and all for your insights.

Russ

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 6:01:51 PM   
DaddyDomnCOLO


Posts: 15
Joined: 10/3/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks again one and all for your opinions. I am hearing a few points from most of you that I have had in my own mind. Did I mention that she has a propensity to lie? I was talking with her and inquired into her online habits, asking if she was actually chatting with other guys, looking for someone to take her in and give her money (this was before this last outburst) she repeated two times that she was not doing that at all even after I informed her of my own belief that she wouldn't tell me if she was and when I handed her proof in the form of conversations she was engaged in at that very moment telling a guy that she didn't have any attachment to me or love and that I was an a$$hole... instead of offering some apology or even being embarrassed she became vulgar and then told me to go get a gun and blow my brains out ... followed by her other hope for my future when she wished that the cancer would kill me. This is typical of her behavior whenever she is found doing something wrong (not just with me but her own family too) . My concern is that I will receive a 2am phone call with her crying and sobbing hoping I can make her feel better again so she can sleep. I know some are thinking this sounds more like a daytime soap opera than real life, but this is too weird to make up. I await any other comments or suggestions and I thank you all for your time and opinions.

Russ

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"I possess, I am not possessed" Greek Philosopher

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 6:05:15 PM   
msjingles


Posts: 27
Joined: 10/9/2004
From: Idaho
Status: offline 		Sorry if this sounds crass but IMO you would be better off without her and she needs to grow up.
I have a 19 yr old daughter.... most of em that age are huge drama queens and very immature.

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 6:18:45 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Russ,

I should have already said that I do see your thoughts too. I am glad things are being dealt with better than you first thought. And honestly, being self centered when scared is not uncommon. It's one of those *can't see the forest for the tree's* things.

My niece is 22. She graduated with honors from FSU in May of this year. In June, she was told she stage 3 cervical cancer. She said the love and support of her family is what allowed her to get through the scary time.

I am sure the decision to have her go wasn't easy,,, but easy or not, it would not change the outcome. Trust in a new relationship is very fragile, and once damaged hard to repair. I agree totally with Eden, at the moment you need to concentrate on yourself.

I also think Sulimen gave good advice in the fact that constantly *begging* forgiveness doesn't promote the thought of a *daddy*. Admit your error, and if she cannot accept you are human and will make errors, there is little long term future anyway. But, though she is *legal*, I can't agree with Eden that she is an *adult*.... she is a *young adult* and since you are looking for a *little girl*, you should expect her to *be* a little girl in thoughts and manners at time. Don't get my wrong,, that doesn't mean you should *accept* temper tantrums, just that it is the kind of behavior that is normal for a *little girl*.



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Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 6:26:09 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		You have cancer! Take care of yourself! What the hell does all the rest matter?

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 7:08:22 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

Did I mention that she has a propensity to lie? <examples snipped>

Uh, no, not until now. Forget my previous post. Now I can't understand why you care at all about the little bitch. This must be just a small portion of the crap she dishes out, and if she had pulled it with me, she might have gotten away with it once, but after the second time she would have been back home with mommy and daddy and rubbing my bootprint on her ass.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 10/9/2004 7:15:02 PM >

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 9:24:24 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring
You have cancer! Take care of yourself! What the hell does all the rest matter?


I agree with Estring here.

My last serious relationship dealt with this issue and let me tell you it really requires strength on both the one with cancer and the other.

Essentially, he found out he had cancer four months into our relationship. I knew something was wrong but he wouldn’t tell me what it was. He kept saying it was nothing. This started to put a stress on our relationship and I broke things off. He then came running back to me and he told me he was diagnosed with colon cancer at the young age of 35. It was now nine months in.

Essentially, he kept this from me because he was so afraid that he would disappoint me. He could not deal with the idea of meeting my needs and his own. His pride took a massive hit because (his words) " the chemo reduced him to a shadow of himself". He was so very emotional that I felt I was walking in a land mine field when we were together.

Things only got worse. One day he pushed me away telling me I never loved him. The next day he begged me not to leave him. I tried to reason with him but that was futile. He had a perception that I would never accept him as he was. I finally told him that I could deal with the fact that he had cancer but I could not deal with his attitude.

I had to remove myself from the situation. I can tell you it was perhaps the single most difficult thing I ever had to do in my life. But it saved his life. I was a distraction from him getting better.

He took my leaving hard at first but apparently it was the kick in the ass that he needed to take back control of his life. Yes, it seems cancer was not enough. But eventually, what happened is that he went into survival mode and lived for himself and got himself better. He stopped living for me (something I never asked him to do but he seemed to insist on doing) and he started living for himself.

I always offered my support to him and kept in touch. A week ago he emailed me to tell me he was back to Stage 0 with 98% of the mass gone.

Bottom line, cancer sucks big time. But you have to put yourself into survival mode. You can’t try to appease everyone around you. Set firm boundaries about what you can and cannot give and if someone is taking up too much energy away from you, then you need to put a distance between you and that person. We are talking about your life.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: What is reasonable from your sub? - 10/9/2004 10:13:47 PM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		I agree with Estring and Angelika. Further I have to say that while I understand that others have far more patience with certain behavior from others than I do, I would have drawn a line a long time ago with that one. It would have been right about the time she told the first lie. What is reasonable from a sub is open honest communication, straight up. Which is the same thing I offer as a Domme.

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Lady Beckett

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"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

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