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6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/4/2011 9:05:37 AM   
Outlier2


Posts: 258
Joined: 11/12/2007
Status: offline 		http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_houston_school_gun

There are so many things that are wrong about this situation
I find it difficult to know where to start.

Since the child was only 6 years old I would start with the parents
but obviously there is plenty of blame to go around.

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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/4/2011 9:18:19 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		At 6? The blame is on the parents/adults within the home. How else does a 6 year old get a semi automatic pistol?

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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/4/2011 11:27:04 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Entirely the responsibility of the parents. At that age they still have magical thinking and cannot think out consequences.

If we are going to allow gun ownership in this country, it should be mandated to do it like in Switzerland, with locked cabinets where the guns are kept and inspection of the guns by the police yearly to insure they are safe to use.

It's a miracle no one was hurt worse.


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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/4/2011 2:44:44 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline 		'Plenty of blame' my ass. Any and all blame rests firmly on the shoulders of the parents.

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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/4/2011 4:11:23 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		Being a grouchylunchlady aint for pussies.

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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/4/2011 4:34:48 PM   
Outlier2


Posts: 258
Joined: 11/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

'Plenty of blame' my ass. Any and all blame rests firmly on the shoulders of the parents.


Simple minded solutions are rarely the correct ones.

I would say the neighbor who left a gun where a 6 year
old could get it and then did not keep an eye on the child
was not blameless.  You would?

How about the child?  Do you think he was carrying the
gun where everyone could see from the time he got his
hands on it or do you think he was hiding it, because he
knew he should not have it?  Being 6 is a mitigating factor
but he is not blameless.

I could string a whole list of questions together but it would
require thought and judgment for you to follow.  Like I said,
I would start with the parents, but I recognize that a situation
like this is not so simple as you would like it to be.


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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/4/2011 5:14:12 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Just because some kids know about guns at six that doeszn't mean they all have to. They don't really even know it's not a toy. That is because our society is full of fucking playbabies. That - by the way - applies to the Parents, let me rephrase that, the spawners.

What's more you think a six year old has the strength, as well as the knowhow to work the slide ? Most of their hands aren't even big enough to fire alot of revolvers unless the weapon is already cocked ! '
'
I call bullshit on the people who FAILED to raise the kid. This is ridiculous.

"do you think he was hiding it, because he
knew he should not have it?"

Kids hide every cool thing they find. The other kids might take it away otherwise because nobody teaches any fucking morals anymore.

E again TA, you DO have a point though, why shoot it there ? Why not outside or something ? Showoff maybe ?

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 5/4/2011 5:18:26 PM >

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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/4/2011 5:24:37 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Entirely the responsibility of the parents. At that age they still have magical thinking and cannot think out consequences.

If we are going to allow gun ownership in this country, it should be mandated to do it like in Switzerland, with locked cabinets where the guns are kept and inspection of the guns by the police yearly to insure they are safe to use.

It's a miracle no one was hurt worse.



It's always best to penalize everyone for the negligence of a few. The American way.




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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/4/2011 5:38:39 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Repeat after me Campers:

All guns are always loaded

Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy

Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target

Always be sure of your target

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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/4/2011 5:40:07 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Repeat after me Campers:

All guns are always loaded

Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy

Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target

Always be sure of your target


That is proper gun control.

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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/4/2011 9:00:48 PM   
Omniseed


Posts: 13
Joined: 4/15/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Entirely the responsibility of the parents. At that age they still have magical thinking and cannot think out consequences.

If we are going to allow gun ownership in this country, it should be mandated to do it like in Switzerland, with locked cabinets where the guns are kept and inspection of the guns by the police yearly to insure they are safe to use.

It's a miracle no one was hurt worse.





I agree that it's extremely lucky no one was more seriously injured or worse. I disagree that having a Swiss-style approach would be right or even legal here, seeing as the Swiss guns in question are government-owned military-issued weapons, while firearms in America are private property, and we have a Constitutional obligation not to allow our government to get to the point where it is capable of infringing on the rights of ordinary citizens to own and safely use firearms at will.


I also think the parents involved should possibly both see some heinous legal ramifications, though there is always the chance that they did follow all reasonable precautions and the little bastard still got into the safe. And if they did as best as can be expected, then there isn't much to be done about it except maybe review how the child defeated their storage methods and make it a public teaching moment to help avoid future incidents.

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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/5/2011 2:12:00 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"and we have a Constitutional obligation not to allow our government to get to the point where it is capable of infringing on the rights of ordinary citizens to own and safely use firearms at will. "

This is where "we" are at odds with many. We have the obligation to protect ourselves FROM the government, despite what some idiots do. That is absolute. The time may come when we have to. We all have the obligation to our family, our chosen family and out fellow Citizens to keep and bear this OBLIGATION to thwart the government itself if necessary. (umm, might be closer than "we" think)

This will be a rallying cry for gun control no doubt. Well, kill the people who caused it, the Parents. Do not let it happen again. Remember back when Jews were not allowed to own guns in Germany. Want that shit to happen again ?

Keep your powder dry.

ETA : "Swiss guns in question are government-owned military-issued weapons". Maybe, but their government works FOR them not AGAINST them.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 5/5/2011 2:14:14 AM >

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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/5/2011 6:24:38 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		I don't think that sweeping gun legislation is the answer here. The problem is that we observe the right to bear arms as almost sacrosanct but we don't give enough attention to the obligations of responsible firearm ownership. Require people to be responsible in their firearm ownership (and deal swiftly and sternly with those who do not up to and including making examples of them with stiff fines and even incarceration) and I think you'll find that people will start taking this matter more seriously. We don't take away everyone's license because one jackass drives drunk - why does that logic fly out the window whenever gun control is the topic?

It's amazing that our country was founded on The Constitution yet people are so quick to strip their fellow citizens of any right that they themselves have no use for. Fucking bleeding hearts are going to destroy this country.




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"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." Sidney J. harris

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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/5/2011 6:29:38 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Imus, are you insinuating that responsibilities come with rights ? The hell you say !

[just so people know, that was sarcastic and not in disagreement, damn people don't know it half the time these days]

T^T

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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/5/2011 6:46:23 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Omniseed


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Entirely the responsibility of the parents. At that age they still have magical thinking and cannot think out consequences.

If we are going to allow gun ownership in this country, it should be mandated to do it like in Switzerland, with locked cabinets where the guns are kept and inspection of the guns by the police yearly to insure they are safe to use.

It's a miracle no one was hurt worse.





I agree that it's extremely lucky no one was more seriously injured or worse. I disagree that having a Swiss-style approach would be right or even legal here, seeing as the Swiss guns in question are government-owned military-issued weapons, while firearms in America are private property, and we have a Constitutional obligation not to allow our government to get to the point where it is capable of infringing on the rights of ordinary citizens to own and safely use firearms at will.

I also think the parents involved should possibly both see some heinous legal ramifications, though there is always the chance that they did follow all reasonable precautions and the little bastard still got into the safe. And if they did as best as can be expected, then there isn't much to be done about it except maybe review how the child defeated their storage methods and make it a public teaching moment to help avoid future incidents.


Now, I don't know too much about the swiss approach about fire guns but when we had a shooting in Germany two years ago where a 17 year old son killed 15 people, his dad was very strong criticised for not having locked them away as there we have the law that only his dad should have been able to access his guns, and he should have made sure that nobody else in his family can access them.

And whilst I don't have the time yet to search for the outcome, he (the gun owner) was at risk of having to pay 10.000 Euro as well as being at risk of five years imprisonment, because of not storing his guns accordingly.

Also in regards to government owned weapen, those are usually kept in the workplace at Germany, at least that was the strict rule from the police department where I worked as a typist ages ago, that they had to leave the wappons at work in a safe when finishing the shift and get it back the next day whilst being on shift...I know its off topic, but just thought to mention it as how to handle wappons came into this debate.

And yes, luck that nobody was hurt worse.


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RE: 6 Year Old Fires Gun in School Cafeteria - 5/5/2011 2:47:54 PM   
calamitysandra


Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline 		The father of the shooter of Winnenden, the incident in Germany Phoenix is referring to, has been convicted of negligent homicide in 15 cases, bodily injury caused by negligence in 14 cases and because of offences against the weapons law. He was sentenced to 1 year and 9 month probation.
If you own weapons in Germany, which in itself is not easy, you have to store them in a weapons safe, separate from the munition, and make sure that nobody but yourself has access.


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Profile   Post #: 16
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