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Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describes you? - 5/8/2011 6:09:37 PM   
provfivetine


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Status: offline 		Just wondering what peoples religious/non-religious stances are. I hear a lot of people say that they're believers, atheists, or agnostics, but I think that's incomplete. So, what describes you?

Negative Theist: "I believe in God, but I don't know if God exists."
Positive Theist: "I believe in God, and I know God exists."
Negative Agnostic: "I don't know if God exists."
Positive Agnostic: "I don't know if God exists, and no one can know if God exists."
Negative Atheist: "I don't believe in God, and I don't know if God exists."
Positive Atheist: "I don't believe in God, and I know God doesn't exist."

Personally, I would equate myself to a negative atheist. To me, both positive theism and positive atheism are representative of deviating from the scientific method. Positive theists and positive atheists have a lot in common; both are dogmatic positions (with all due respect).

< Message edited by provfivetine -- 5/8/2011 6:14:29 PM >
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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: What one describes... - 5/8/2011 6:15:40 PM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		Umm, if I use my own definitions of the concept 'god', various answers might be possible. Perhaps it is better if you defined what your concept of god is?

In any case, you missed at least one option: I do not believe in God, and I do know that it exists.

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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 6:54:07 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		None of the above.

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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 6:55:45 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

None of the above.



This

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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 7:52:44 PM   
MissImmortalPain


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Status: offline 		Deism

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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 7:54:06 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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Status: offline 		Interesting categorisation. Did you develop it yourself? Two comments that quickly came to mind. I wonder with the Negative Theist category (“I believe in God, but I don't know if God exists.”) if it is possible to genuinely believe something but still proclaim that you don’t know if it is true or not because religious faith goes beyond a normal belief in a basic fact that may be wrong? Also with the Positive Agnostic (“I don't know if God exists, and no one can know if God exists.”) and the Negative Atheist (“I don't believe in God, and I don't know if God exists.”), are they both not in essence similarly agnostic positions put in slightly different terms because even if the atheist says “I don't believe in God” both affirm “I don't know if God exists”? From the believer’s perspective, a statement of positive known fact would seem to have a higher priority in terms of opinion than what is acknowledged as a belief.

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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 7:59:54 PM   
Tantriqu


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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: What one describes... - 5/8/2011 8:03:37 PM   
provfivetine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
In any case, you missed at least one option: I do not believe in God, and I do know that it exists.


Someone NOT believing in God but KNOWING that God exists is a contradiction is terms.

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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 8:08:04 PM   
provfivetine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

Interesting categorisation. Did you develop it yourself? Two comments that quickly came to mind. I wonder with the Negative Theist category (“I believe in God, but I don't know if God exists.”) if it is possible to genuinely believe something but still proclaim that you don’t know if it is true or not because religious faith goes beyond a normal belief in a basic fact that may be wrong? Also with the Positive Agnostic (“I don't know if God exists, and no one can know if God exists.”) and the Negative Atheist (“I don't believe in God, and I don't know if God exists.”), are they both not in essence similarly agnostic positions put in slightly different terms because even if the atheist says “I don't believe in God” both affirm “I don't know if God exists”? From the believer’s perspective, a statement of positive known fact would seem to have a higher priority in terms of opinion than what is acknowledged as a belief.


I didn't come up with the concept myself. Negative and Positive Theism/Atheism are quite commonly discussed. As for things in between, I'm sure that someone could propose a category that fits in the middle, but I would venture to assume that over 95% of people fit into one of the listed categories.

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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 8:09:59 PM   
provfivetine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Humanist


Isn't Humanism just an offshoot of Hegelian spiritualism?

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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: What one describes... - 5/8/2011 8:11:19 PM   
pogo4pres


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Apatheist, means I neither know nor give a shit.  We all croak in the end and hope for "eternal life" seems rather silly to me.


Apathetically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ


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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 8:19:23 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
Interesting categorisation. Did you develop it yourself? Two comments that quickly came to mind. I wonder with the Negative Theist category (“I believe in God, but I don't know if God exists.”) if it is possible to genuinely believe something but still proclaim that you don’t know if it is true or not because religious faith goes beyond a normal belief in a basic fact that may be wrong? Also with the Positive Agnostic (“I don't know if God exists, and no one can know if God exists.”) and the Negative Atheist (“I don't believe in God, and I don't know if God exists.”), are they both not in essence similarly agnostic positions put in slightly different terms because even if the atheist says “I don't believe in God” both affirm “I don't know if God exists”? From the believer’s perspective, a statement of positive known fact would seem to have a higher priority in terms of opinion than what is acknowledged as a belief.

I didn't come up with the concept myself. Negative and Positive Theism/Atheism are quite commonly discussed. As for things in between, I'm sure that someone could propose a category that fits in the middle, but I would venture to assume that over 95% of people fit into one of the listed categories.

The point about Positive Agnostics and Negative Atheists is that both are in essence agnostics. If thats correct then Negative Atheists should more properly be called something along the lines of atheistic agnostics as I would describe myself. I think Positive Agnostics also qualify as dogmatic because they assert "no one can know if God exists."

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RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 9:17:39 PM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Humanist


Isn't Humanism just an offshoot of Hegelian spiritualism?
quote:

  • A cultural movement of the Italian Renaissance based on the study of classical works
  • An approach to education that uses literary means or a focus on the humanities to inform students.
  • A variety of perspectives in philosophy and social science which affirm some notion of 'human nature' (by contrast with anti-humanism).
  • A secular ideology which espouses reason, ethics, and justice, whilst specifically rejecting supernatural and religious dogma as a basis of morality and decision-making.
    • Typically, in the context of a discussion on belief systems, the last definition is generally assumed, and might or might not be found accompanied by various corollary spiritual beliefs.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

    Deism

    I noticed that was conspicuously missing.

    < Message edited by xssve -- 5/8/2011 9:18:15 PM >

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    RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 9:19:54 PM   
    tazzygirl


    Posts: 37833
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    Status: offline     		Much is missing.

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    If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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    RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 11:11:20 PM   
    lickenforyou


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    Status: offline     		I don't believe in God, and there has been no credible evidence presented that any gods exist. Is it possible that a being of some sort created the universe that we inhabit? I would have to believe it's possible, but I find it hard to believe that it would be a god-like being. 

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    RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 11:16:05 PM   
    WyldHrt


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    Status: offline     		'Agnostic flirting with atheism' is my preferred descriptor.
    When confronted with someone determined to 'save' me, it becomes "Militant agnostic- I don't know and you don't either!"

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    RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 11:33:08 PM   
    NihilusZero


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    Status: offline     		Based on your available options, "Positive Atheist" fits as the best description for me.

    While I can see the prototypical reasoning you're using to isolate "positive atheism" and "positive theism" into the realm of "deviating from the scientific method", you're only falling back upon an 'argue the unknowable' system of thinking, rather than assessing the coherence of the idea in the first place.

    Or perhaps you're lumping hard atheists together with anti-theists, which would be another error.

    < Message edited by NihilusZero -- 5/8/2011 11:37:48 PM >

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    RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/8/2011 11:56:06 PM   
    imperatrixx


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    quote:

    Negative Theist: "I believe in God, but I don't know if God exists."


    This one mostly.

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    RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/9/2011 1:32:39 AM   
    paulmcuk


    Posts: 80
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    Status: offline     		As Rule said, it depends on how you define god. In terms of god as represented by any religion I'm familiar with, then I'm a Positive Atheist. However, I don't entirely rule out the possibility of there being *something* in this big ole universe (or beyond it) which might be of a nature that humans would call godlike. Can't really explain better than that because I start using words like "force" and it ends up sounding a bit Jedi. But, in that sense, I'm also a negative atheist.

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    RE: Theism, Agnosticism, or Atheism: Which one describe... - 5/9/2011 5:56:32 AM   
    WantsOfTheFlesh


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: xssve
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain
    Deism

    I noticed that was conspicuously missing.

    I reckon deism would come under one of the theist headings because it is still a belief in some sort of divinity. The categorisation is probably put in a Western monotheistic way since thats how philosophy wrestled with the issue traditionally. If you were to substitute God with gods or divinity it would probably cover all or almost all forms of religious belief.

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