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RE: Slavery v art - 5/9/2011 11:05:15 PM   
petmonkey


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.  nevermind.



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RE: Slavery v art - 5/10/2011 6:48:25 AM   
OttersSwim


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My personal opinion on art and artists is that art is not just something you -do-, it is something you -are-.  For many folk, being artists is something that is seated at the very core of their being, and the process of creation gives them something essential to their being.

So it is my belief that even in slavery, the individual has an obligation to be true to themselves, to their core nature (whatever that may be).  I would also hope that any person taking ownership of such an individual would be savvy enough to recognize something that cannot always simply be abandoned, and that may be a key part of their potential slave's identity and sense of self, and further that the process that doing art evokes in many is incredibly -feeding- to the soul and the loss of it might have a very deleterious effect on the slave.


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RE: Slavery v art - 5/10/2011 6:58:36 AM   
sunshinemiss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablarosa

the thing is, you can't assume those luxuries of group support to be default in slavery. it's wonderful to have the situation LNT describes, but it doesn't mean much beyond offering just a little glimpse of what could be out of many mistresses and mastresses and masters.

thing is, that "could be" can't be banked upon. His mistress may want him to abandon his art or paint only her or change his lifestyle altogether into something totally different and terrifying and it will be within her right to do so. I have no doubt that if said painter were to become LNT's slave, he/she would give him room to work and be himself, like her author guy. But that's her, and her methods and styles are not a given in slavery.



You have a point Rosa, yes, you do. Someone could foolishly attempt to change the personality of another. Yes, of course. And then they'd have one of two endpoints. They will get a shell of a person or they will be alone.

Rarely have I ever seen a relationship work in which one party destroys the personality of the other. *Ponders* Come to think of it, I've never seen that work. I'm sure it does somewhere until the "shell of the person" finally finds their survival instinct. Then the end point becomes the foolish "domly / masterly" type ends up alone.

best,
sunshine

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RE: Slavery v art - 5/10/2011 7:48:40 AM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablarosa
the thing is, you can't assume those luxuries of group support to be default in slavery. it's wonderful to have the situation LNT describes, but it doesn't mean much beyond offering just a little glimpse of what could be out of many mistresses and mastresses and masters.


Sure, there's owners out there who aren't nearly as interested in owning complete human beings with all the trials and tribulations that go along with giving them room to grow and flourish as creative individuals.  They just want sexual and domestic service, and they may not want a slave to work outside the home or have an active creative life.

However, in my experience they are definitely not in the majority.  And you'll know what the situation is (I hope!) before accepting a collar or a brand.  You do not have to consent to ownership by someone who wants to own more of a service machine than a human with creative aspirations.

My boy asked me before accepting the book contract.  He knew what it would entail and he'd have said no if I wasn't willing to put up with having limited time and service from him during deadline crunch.  But I also know what it would entail in the long run if I denied him the opportunity to be the best person and the best creative writer he can be.  He would still love me and serve me, but a little more of that sparkle would be gone from his eyes every time I took a piece out of his soul.  And that's not what I want in the long term for either of us.  I don't want the empty shell of a man serving me with quiet, numb obedience.  I want a living, vibrant, happy, creative, successful human being who is striving to be the best that he can be.  I am proud of what he accomplishes. 

I also do some gardening.  If you buy a pretty plant, and you put it in a pot that is too small and only allow it a little bit of water every so often, it will not flourish.  You will still own the plant, no one can deny that, but it won't be a very pretty plant after you've treated it like this for too long.   Cramp their roots and ration their water and your plant is not going to flourish and be vibrant and healthy.  Plants do need guidance and pruning and firm trellis support, but they also need to have free access to water and sunlight, or they will wither and die and you will be left with a dead shell in your pot.  There are a lot of lessons to be learned from gardening.  People aren't plants, but the basic principles hold true for any living thing. 

quote:

thing is, that "could be" can't be banked upon. His mistress may want him to abandon his art or paint only her or change his lifestyle altogether into something totally different and terrifying and it will be within her right to do so. I have no doubt that if said painter were to become LNT's slave, he/she would give him room to work and be himself, like her author guy. But that's her, and her methods and styles are not a given in slavery.


Well, there may come a day when I say no to a particular book contract at a particularly busy time, because it would take him below the absolute minimum of time and service I require.  But in general, that's just not the way I roll.  Part of my philosophy of owning human beings is that they must strive for greatness, make physical and emotional health a priority, uphold ethical principles, grow spiritually and mentally, and otherwise become the best human beings they can be under my leadership.  Getting the dishes done is lower on my personal priority list than writing a good book. 

I wouldn't recommend "don't be a slave".  I would recommend finding an owner who thinks like I do.   There are a lot of us out there, I think more so than the other kind.  Being utterly selfish, greedy or short-sighted isn't really a required criteria for being an owner.  Generally folks who are wise and patient, good teachers and leaders, responsible stewards, folks who look at the bigger picture and plan years ahead for their household, etc, are the ones you'll see in successful long term O/p relationships.

Honestly, I've rarely seen the other kind, at least outside the Internet with a series of velcro fantasy collars.  There are exceptions, but those exceptions are matched with slaves who are wired much the same way and who genuinely do want to lose themselves in their slavery.  If your expectations are not a good match for those of your prospective slave or owner, move along until you find someone who is a good match.


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