RE: Affecting Water

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willbeurdaddy -> RE: Affecting Water (5/12/2011 1:43:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy What exactly am I making up? Here is what your link responded to.... I want you to focus very carefully on my post. Ready? Okay. Now I want you to observe the "~ FR ~" at the top. See it? Good. Now ask Willbeurbrain what it means. K. now that youve apparently found teachmeaboutcommunication try not to be so fast. She'll like it better.

Kirata -> RE: Affecting Water (5/12/2011 1:49:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy now that youve apparently found teachmeaboutcommunication try not to be so fast Ha! That appears to go both ways... Smart-assery aside, I hadn't even read as far as your post when I put that link up (Fast Reply just tacks things on wherever). But it's clear to me now why you thought what you did, and also why I thought your response was off the wall. So let's call it a draw. Looks like we both jumped to conclusions. K.

ricken -> RE: Affecting Water (5/12/2011 1:57:02 PM)
I used to be a fan and I believed (foolishly) that we can manifest changes around us with positive thoughts, emotions and doing well for ourself and others. I no longer believe any crap like that. What happens, happens it's as simple as that. If someone looks hard enough they can find proof to any crazy idea that comes along, like emotions and prayer affecting water....IT'S WATER!!! The most intersting thing to me about this, is someplace, somehow this guy has found some suckers to pay him to do this study.... I think I'll do a study on the affects of my emotions on frozen water....if I'm angry will it melt faster than if I think good thoughts....I just got to get financial backers.... My hats off to this guy for sure

Icarys -> RE: Affecting Water (5/12/2011 2:11:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ricken I used to be a fan and I believed (foolishly) that we can manifest changes around us with positive thoughts, emotions and doing well for ourself and others. I no longer believe any crap like that. What happens, happens it's as simple as that. If someone looks hard enough they can find proof to any crazy idea that comes along, like emotions and prayer affecting water....IT'S WATER!!! The most intersting thing to me about this, is someplace, somehow this guy has found some suckers to pay him to do this study.... I think I'll do a study on the affects of my emotions on frozen water....if I'm angry will it melt faster than if I think good thoughts....I just got to get financial backers.... My hats off to this guy for sure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeTTCeqBwjc&feature=related This guy is on his way already. Hey, I have an idea! Maybe...Maybe that's why they tell you to talk to your plants! They're made up of water too! Say nice things, play Vivaldi (Any will do cause It's all full of beauty) and just give a plant a hug! Proof positive, I'm sure of it.

Kirata -> RE: Affecting Water (5/12/2011 2:44:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys Hey, I have an idea! Maybe...Maybe that's why they tell you to talk to your plants! They're made up of water too! Say nice things, play Vivaldi (Any will do cause It's all full of beauty) and just give a plant a hug! Maybe you should. Remember "The Secret Life of Plants"? [:D] Actually, most of the stuff I've seen on the effects of intention on water was done with plants. But as it happens, an earlier study on water crystals got significant results too. K.

Icarys -> RE: Affecting Water (5/12/2011 2:51:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys Hey, I have an idea! Maybe...Maybe that's why they tell you to talk to your plants! They're made up of water too! Say nice things, play Vivaldi (Any will do cause It's all full of beauty) and just give a plant a hug! Maybe you should. Remember "The Secret Life of Plants"? [:D] Actually, most of the stuff I've seen on the effects of intention on water was done with plants. But as it happens, an earlier study on water crystals got significant results too. K. All jokes aside, I'll take a look at that. [:D]

heartcream -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 10:35:58 AM)
Glad to see this thread back on track. quote: I used to be a fan and I believed (foolishly) that we can manifest changes around us with positive thoughts, emotions and doing well for ourself and others. I no longer believe any crap like that. What happens, happens it's as simple as that. If someone looks hard enough they can find proof to any crazy idea that comes along, like emotions and prayer affecting water....IT'S WATER!!! This is the kind of thinking that parents give their children for example, to diminish things down to a sort of numb nothingness. Like "Why are you crying that your dog died, it is a DOG!" They even kind of yell why they say this. It pretty much boils down to a deep seated hatred and fear of emotion. As though emotions could KILL someone. I find it exceedingly Neanderthalic, mean, dangerous and ultimately says more about the person trying to shut down and control the situation than anything else. In turn everyone reaps the unhappy benefits of hunting down, shutting down emotions, like cancer, heart attacks, even male pattern baldness is a symptom of attempting to think away feelings rather than accepting them for what they are and feeling them instead. As a side note, positive thinking on its own does not work because of this. Bashing out feelings because they are not "positive" is not going to work either.

DomKen -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 10:44:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata But as it happens, an earlier study on water crystals got significant results too. Same lead author and functionally the same experiment as the previous paper you linked. In this case the crystals chosen for examination were chosen by one of the authors who was not blind as to which samples of water as the cource for each crystals. That injected bias into the experiment.

Kirata -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 11:22:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen In this case the crystals chosen for examination were chosen by one of the authors who was not blind as to which samples of water as the cource for each crystals. Do you just make this shit up? The crystals were photographed for analysis without knowledge of which experimental condition the sample represented, and the subsequent aestheic ratings were independent and blind. they [M.E. and T.K.] were not told the conditions of the four bottles... volunteers were recruited over the Internet to blindly and independently rate each crystal... The order in which each image was presented to each judge (via a Web page) was independently randomized... and the condition (treated vs control) from which each crystal was formed was not indicated K.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 11:31:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen In this case the crystals chosen for examination were chosen by one of the authors who was not blind as to which samples of water as the cource for each crystals. Do you just make this shit up? The crystals were photographed for analysis without knowledge of which experimental condition the sample represented, and the subsequent aestheic ratings were independent and blind. they [M.E. and T.K.] were not told the conditions of the four bottles... volunteers were recruited over the Internet to blindly and independently rate each crystal... The order in which each image was presented to each judge (via a Web page) was independently randomized... and the condition (treated vs control) from which each crystal was formed was not indicated K. Sounds to me like, contrary to your prior protest, you are buying this crap! Do you really think that someone trying to sell books and lectures on a bullshit idea wouldnt lie about the process? INDEPENDENT DOUBLE BLIND STUDY WITH STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT RESULTS, not spin by the participants, please.

Kirata -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 11:49:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Sounds to me like, contrary to your prior protest, you are buying this crap! Oh shit, did I leave my mind open again? Fuck, fuck, fuck, I'm sorry. quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Do you really think that someone trying to sell books and lectures on a bullshit idea wouldnt lie about the process? I know they're lying. I fucked up. I don't know what happened to me. K.

DomKen -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 2:30:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen In this case the crystals chosen for examination were chosen by one of the authors who was not blind as to which samples of water as the cource for each crystals. Do you just make this shit up? The crystals were photographed for analysis without knowledge of which experimental condition the sample represented, and the subsequent aestheic ratings were independent and blind. they [M.E. and T.K.] were not told the conditions of the four bottles... volunteers were recruited over the Internet to blindly and independently rate each crystal... The order in which each image was presented to each judge (via a Web page) was independently randomized... and the condition (treated vs control) from which each crystal was formed was not indicated K. Did you not read the whole study. quote: The first author (D.R.) randomly assigned the bottles with labels A throughD(using a tossed die), and, with G.H., he selected two of those bottles to be the “treated” samples (randomly selected as A and B); the remaining two bottles were set aside as controls (C and D). quote: The day after the conference, D.R. and G.H. retrieved all four bottles and wrapped them in identical sheets of aluminum foil and bubble wrap, placed each bottle in a separate box labeled A through D as appropriate, and mailed the four boxes to M.E.’s laboratory. Fairly obvious that the tech knew A and B were the test and C and D were controls. For a real double blind the 4 samples should have been randomized so there was no way for any investigator to know which was which. That data should have been held by an uninvolved person with no contact with the authors.

Kirata -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 3:43:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Fairly obvious that the tech knew A and B were the test and C and D were controls. What tech would this be? The bottles were sent to M.E. and T.K. without either of them knowing or being told which ones were the controls. K.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 3:48:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Sounds to me like, contrary to your prior protest, you are buying this crap! Oh shit, did I leave my mind open again? Fuck, fuck, fuck, I'm sorry. quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Do you really think that someone trying to sell books and lectures on a bullshit idea wouldnt lie about the process? I know they're lying. I fucked up. I don't know what happened to me. K. Open to what? There has been nothing here that could possibly sway someone from disbelief or neutrality toward belief. You bought it from the beginning.

DomKen -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 3:51:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Fairly obvious that the tech knew A and B were the test and C and D were controls. What tech would this be? The bottles were sent to M.E. and T.K. without either of them knowing or being told which ones were the controls. The tech who froze the samples and photographed the crystals. The one who produced 24 pics from the test samples but only 16 from the controls.

Kirata -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 7:05:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The tech who froze the samples and photographed the crystals. You're mistaken, Ken. The tech (Takashige Kizu) froze 50 samples [0.5ml] from each of the four bottles without knowing which bottles were treated and which were controls, and all of the crystals that formed were photographed (for a total of 40 out of the 200 samples). Emoto and Kizu didn't even know that the controls existed until they learned they would be receiving four bottles instead of the expected two, and they were not told which bottles were which. K.

juliaoceania -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 7:33:01 PM)
quote: As though emotions could KILL someone. Actually emotions do kill people every day, and unfortunately our unwillingness to deal with them only exacerbates the situation.

heartcream -> RE: Affecting Water (5/14/2011 7:56:58 PM)
No emotions themselves do not kill people, denied emotions do, emotions judged to be unacceptable do. If there is acceptance for the feelings they will not act out in an unsafe way. People gap out and do horrid things when they hold their emotions in and down and the straw that breaks the camels back happens and folks end up doing untold amounts of damage to themselves and each other. It is not the emotion that is to blame but all the denial in there warping things.

DomKen -> RE: Affecting Water (5/15/2011 7:12:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The tech who froze the samples and photographed the crystals. You're mistaken, Ken. The tech (Takashige Kizu) froze 50 samples [0.5ml] from each of the four bottles without knowing which bottles were treated and which were controls, and all of the crystals that formed were photographed (for a total of 40 out of the 200 samples). Emoto and Kizu didn't even know that the controls existed until they learned they would be receiving four bottles instead of the expected two, and they were not told which bottles were which. K. Read the study. The bottles were labeled sequentially. That is experiment ruining bias. For a real double blind study the labeling should have been random and certainly not 4 letters in sequence. The number of crystals photographed is telling as the difference between 24 and 16 is statistically huge. Quite simply the tech may have chosen more crystals in the "treated" samples or only less visually pleasing crystals from the controls.

juliaoceania -> RE: Affecting Water (5/15/2011 7:22:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream No emotions themselves do not kill people, denied emotions do, emotions judged to be unacceptable do. If there is acceptance for the feelings they will not act out in an unsafe way. People gap out and do horrid things when they hold their emotions in and down and the straw that breaks the camels back happens and folks end up doing untold amounts of damage to themselves and each other. It is not the emotion that is to blame but all the denial in there warping things. Actually, stress is an emotion... Stress kills. Stress is worsened by denied emotions, but some of us are just more prone to anxiety, even if we accept it. It takes work to control it.... like meditation, etc. I would say run-away emotions are just as dangerous as suppressed ones.

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