RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner

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zenny -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 12:59:28 PM)
And yet crimes are at or close to all time highs in countries that have done that. Go figure! [sm=cheering.gif] Great idea!

Lucylastic -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 1:08:40 PM)
Proof please

outhere69 -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 2:02:14 PM)
The FBI doesn't keep such statistics. Time magazine did a feature on the 464 gun deaths in 1 week in the US, back in 1989. It showed that some of the stories published about guns preventing a crime are misleading, and some data out of King County (WA) showing that for each defensible, justifiable homicide, there were 43 murders, suicides, and accidental deaths (in 1986). The article made for a huge amount of debate, you can find Time's answer here: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,958392-1,00.html It was interesting that the woman in the anecdote only survived because she'd unloaded the chamber. Otherwise she would've been killed with her own gun. Most women are attacked from the rear - I'd have to have a gun in my hand to do any good at all.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 2:20:40 PM)
I think people have every right to own a firearm. I think that any adult who owns a firearm and has children around, who does not teach them gun safety, should be beaten and not in a good way. I think if you are an adult and you have firearms in a place that a child can get to, and that child is injured, or injures another, that you should go to jail for a while. I think that if you are too fucking stupid to treat every weapon like it is a loaded weapon, and you shoot your self in the head, well, you are a moron. If you accidentally shoot someone else, you are a bigger moron. I have been around guns all my life, and if you are looking at one or cleaning one and you point the barrel at me, I will go psycholunchlady on your ass about it. If I pull out a weapon, and I did not just say "hey wanna see this pistol i have", I am going to be shooting until it is empty. What was the question?

SternSkipper -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 2:29:22 PM)
quote: There's a really easy way to answer this, provide a link to the study. Surely the FBI has published this report. I'd rather see proof that he isn't this guy: " I can also tell you from my professional experience that individuals who run around talking about their wealth of experience with weapons and constantly seem to engage in verbal aggression with those around them (one in this thread really stands out as a prime example) are the kind of people we'd routinely keep an eye on. Individuals like that fit a profile where the extrapolated behaviors include murder of family members, armed stand-offs, and even child molestation." - manathewheel Heh... I'm just sitting here laughing my fucking ass off that Vin Douchel there kisses the ass of the guy who practically calls him Lee Harvey Oswald and John Wayne Gacy rolled into one[:)]

VideoAdminAlpha -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 4:45:30 PM)
This thread is not offtopic anymore. It is now in Politics and Religion.[;)]

Real0ne -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 5:17:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness This is the same kind of nutty argument the NRA nuts make every time and every time they're pulled up by the vast weight of statistics which demonstrate: A) Private firearms are more of a danger to yourself and your loved ones than anyone else. B) Given the expectation of homeowners with firearms, criminals simply arm up themselves. C) The resulting heavily-armed society is a violent one with simply enormous levels of gun violence. Homicide due to firearms in the USA is roughly 85 per million population. In New Zealand which has relatively liberal private gun ownership but places restrictions on military-style semi-automatics and focuses on vetting gun owners themselves rather than specific firearm classes, the homicide rate is 13 per million. This means that we have less than 50 homicides per year, while the USA has 25,000-30,000. And let's not forget the number of people in that list who take their lives with their own weapon. Sorry gun crazies - this one example doesn't change the fact that more people die every year due to your obsession than are saved by it. Nice try though. whats this another fuckin brit trying to tell americans to ban arms and how to live? quote: Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia --- Crime Rate Plummets tysk news ^ \| 1997 \| Baldwin Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:29:03 PM by doug from upland Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia Crime Rate Plummets by Chuck Baldwin The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes. The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982. And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998. With all the attention that has been heaped upon the lawful possession of firearms lately, you would think that a city that requires gun ownership would be the center of a media feeding frenzy. It isn't. The fact is I can't remember a major media outlet even mentioning Kennesaw. Can you? The reason is obvious. Kennesaw proves that the presence of firearms actually improves safety and security. This is not the message that the media want us to hear. They want us to believe that guns are evil and are the cause of violence. The facts tell a different story. What is even more interesting about Kennesaw is that the city's crime rate decreased with the simple knowledge that the entire community was armed. The bad guys didn't force the residents to prove it. Just knowing that residents were armed prompted them to move on to easier targets. Most criminals don't have a death wish. There have been two occasions in my own family when the presence of a handgun averted potential disaster. In both instances the gun was never aimed at a person and no shot was fired. How does that saying go again? Oh yeh... eat shit and bark at the moon! YOu just better be nice because there are 300 million people in the US and 302 MILLION "known" arms in the hands of the public. Thats more than the armys of the world combined.

lockedaway -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 5:23:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness This is the same kind of nutty argument the NRA nuts make every time and every time they're pulled up by the vast weight of statistics which demonstrate: A) Private firearms are more of a danger to yourself and your loved ones than anyone else. B) Given the expectation of homeowners with firearms, criminals simply arm up themselves. C) The resulting heavily-armed society is a violent one with simply enormous levels of gun violence. Homicide due to firearms in the USA is roughly 85 per million population. In New Zealand which has relatively liberal private gun ownership but places restrictions on military-style semi-automatics and focuses on vetting gun owners themselves rather than specific firearm classes, the homicide rate is 13 per million. This means that we have less than 50 homicides per year, while the USA has 25,000-30,000. And let's not forget the number of people in that list who take their lives with their own weapon. Sorry gun crazies - this one example doesn't change the fact that more people die every year due to your obsession than are saved by it. Nice try though. whats this another fuckin brit trying to tell americans to ban arms and how to live? quote: Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia --- Crime Rate Plummets tysk news ^ \| 1997 \| Baldwin Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:29:03 PM by doug from upland Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia Crime Rate Plummets by Chuck Baldwin The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes. The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982. And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998. With all the attention that has been heaped upon the lawful possession of firearms lately, you would think that a city that requires gun ownership would be the center of a media feeding frenzy. It isn't. The fact is I can't remember a major media outlet even mentioning Kennesaw. Can you? The reason is obvious. Kennesaw proves that the presence of firearms actually improves safety and security. This is not the message that the media want us to hear. They want us to believe that guns are evil and are the cause of violence. The facts tell a different story. What is even more interesting about Kennesaw is that the city's crime rate decreased with the simple knowledge that the entire community was armed. The bad guys didn't force the residents to prove it. Just knowing that residents were armed prompted them to move on to easier targets. Most criminals don't have a death wish. There have been two occasions in my own family when the presence of a handgun averted potential disaster. In both instances the gun was never aimed at a person and no shot was fired. How does that saying go again? Oh yeh... eat shit and bark at the moon! YOu just better be nice because there are 300 million people in the US and 302 "known" arms in the hands of the public. Thats more than the armys of the world combined. Bravo, RealOne. I don't often agree with you and I don't expect that to change, but you couldn't be more right about the deterring effect of private gun ownership on crime. And for those pusilanimous gun haters, it is a matter of historical record that the empire of Japan never even entertained a thought of a mainland invasion of the U.S. because the citizens were so well armed. If the Brits, who live in a country less than twice the size of Texas, want to be disarmed, want to live in a socialist caste system, want to boast about having more cameras watching their people than any other country in the world and want to have their energy monitored by a "smart grid", I say FUCK 'EM! Yes, they are our cousins from across the pond but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't keep eating at the children's table over the holidays.

Kirata -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 7:08:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness Given the expectation of homeowners with firearms, criminals simply arm up themselves. This may surprise you, but criminals very much prefer not to risk getting shot or caught. Tourism is a big industry in Florida, and back in the 90's the state had a problem. Tourists were being assaulted and robbed at an alarming rate, and the tourism industry was getting seriously nervous. This had to stop. But at first, nobody could figure out how the criminals were targeting the state's tourists with such uncanny accuracy. Florida is a right-to-carry state, but much of our tourism is international. And the rate of assaults against foreign tourists was enough to make you wonder if they had little lights on their heads alerting criminals that here was a victim who would be unlikely to hold any nasty surprises. Until, that is, the picture finally cleared. Most foreign tourists who come to Florida need to rent a car to get around. And in resort areas during the tourist season, it was an all but certain bet in those days that rental plates on a vehicle meant the driver was a foreign tourist and therefore unarmed. Bingo. Florida immediately changed the law so that rental vehicles could no longer be distinguished by their license plates, and the rash of assaults stopped as if a faucet had been turned off. Doyle Jourdon, head of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement at the time, commented, "The bad guys are not stupid." Too bad we can't say that about everyone. K.

lockedaway -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 7:13:01 PM)
Great post, Kirata.

SternSkipper -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 8:01:27 PM)
quote: There have been two occasions in my own family when the presence of a handgun averted potential disaster. In both instances the gun was never aimed at a person and no shot was fired. I have this mental image of one of the "hand models" from the price is right waving their hand across and S&W .357 and criminals diving out the livingroom window... colorful YOu just better be nice because there are 300 million people in the US and 302 "known" arms in the hands of the public. Thats more than the armys of the world combined. BFD AND THIS ... THIS IS JUST LUDICROUS .... And for those pusilanimous gun haters, it is a matter of historical record that the empire of Japan never even entertained a thought of a mainland invasion of the U.S. because the citizens were so well armed. My father shortened his life in WW2 and I am just going to call you for what you are with this statement, a bullshit artist. Every account I have ever heard indicated that the strong naval presence between the west coast and Hawaii made it logistically impossible for the Japanese to even consider making such a move. In 30 seconds I was able to locate MANY cites to back up what I am saying, where's yours????: Let's ask wiki answers, they only have like a 99.9% accuracy rate/\... http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_did_Japan_not_invade_the_US And Oh, look here's a bunch of people who are ACTUAL EXPERTS ON WW2, many of whom are are ACTUAL WW2 VETS... but what the fuck would they know? They just fought in the war and have first hand knoweledge by living on more than half a century after the conflict and studying it with great interest.... http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?4617-What-was-the-danger-of-Japanese-invasion-of-the-USA-main-land On yahoo Answers, the accepted answer not only addresses the japan invasion question but also extrpolates on your theory based on the MYTHIC Yamamoto 'gun behind every blade of grass' ... such a powerful statement ... too bad he didn't include it in his memoirs and remains widely used BUT COMPLETELY UNSUBSTANTIATED... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101028070228AAVctPy You want to tackle a real conspiracy? Perhaps you could find out who's at the root of these BS efforts to create a revisionist view of US history. That would be something I would be MOST impressed with. The nice thing about all of this BS you guys spread across the internet is that it has resulted in a number of very reliable groups working to verify as many of the facts about these neo-myths as possible. Here's my advice. Besides of course finding a Domme who can get herself past your unsightly appearance and beat some fucking sense into you, I would go to snopes.com with each of the internet chain letters and search on the so-called 'facts' you intend to spew. I guarantee you'll most often get some kind of proof of inaccuracy or verification of the absurd claim you want to make. EVENTUALLY.... SOMEDAY... you'll come up with something you can report with a vague element of truth... AND BOY, WON'T YOU BE PROUD.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 8:14:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 True, none of them were shot dead, but.... ...but that means they are freely able to go into someone else's home with knives and axe handles when they are released. It's amusing to me how Aussies like to brag about their country's gun control laws while forgetting that when Australia initially banned guns, gun crime spiked long before it began to decrease. That means that for a time, gun-toting criminals had free reign, knowing they had no fear of armed opposition.

tazzygirl -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 8:26:33 PM)
~FR Is it just me or does the thought of banning guns for citizens leave a doorway of opportunity for criminals to do pretty much whatever they please... because, frankly, they arent too worried about the law to begin with.

Real0ne -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 8:27:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper I have this mental image of one of the "hand models" from the price is right I really dont know anything about your army of strawmen in your post but I put this up for people like you, but I guess you still dont get it. quote: Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia --- Crime Rate Plummets tysk news ^ \| 1997 \| Baldwin Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:29:03 PM by doug from upland Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia Crime Rate Plummets by Chuck Baldwin The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes. The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982. And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998. With all the attention that has been heaped upon the lawful possession of firearms lately, you would think that a city that requires gun ownership would be the center of a media feeding frenzy. It isn't. The fact is I can't remember a major media outlet even mentioning Kennesaw. Can you? The reason is obvious. Kennesaw proves that the presence of firearms actually improves safety and security. This is not the message that the media want us to hear. They want us to believe that guns are evil and are the cause of violence. The facts tell a different story. What is even more interesting about Kennesaw is that the city's crime rate decreased with the simple knowledge that the entire community was armed. The bad guys didn't force the residents to prove it. Just knowing that residents were armed prompted them to move on to easier targets. Most criminals don't have a death wish. There have been two occasions in my own family when the presence of a handgun averted potential disaster. In both instances the gun was never aimed at a person and no shot was fired.

SternSkipper -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 9:19:07 PM)
quote: I really don't know anything about your army of strawmen in your post but I put this up for people like you, but I guess you still dont get it. Be sure to write back when you have something to say that even makes any fucking sense. I am assuming that by inappropriate use of the term 'strawmen' you mean your being confronted with facts below the quote you actually commented on.... I made the hand model reference in regard to the image your illustration of these ALLEGED two incident. As far as the information provided below. Those are simply called documentation of the invalidity of your friend's claim. Sorry the truth is so hard to swallow. Like I said .... when you have something cogent to say, be sure to write back.

WyldHrt -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 10:49:10 PM)
quote: I can tell you for a fact, that the Bureau is definitely not engaged in any 'studies' that produce data designed to promote private gun ownership. Funny, most studies start with a theory, then data is gathered and analyzed, and only then is a conclusion reached. Seems to me that 'the Bureau' is doing things bass-ackwards if they definitely aren't engaged in studies that produce a specific conclusion. quote: By the way, if you would like the perspective of someone who ACTUALLY carries a gun and has had to discharge it several times in the span of his career[/snip] Wow, I'm impressed. Some random guy on the internet claims to be a LEO with knowledge of the FBI's stat gathering methods and having had to discharge his weapon 'several times'. Thank goodness your hidden profile, been here 2 years, never posted before self just happened to stumble on this particular gun thread. Is anyone missing a sock? [8D]

Awareness -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 11:05:10 PM)
No. They're not. It's just gun-obsessive propaganda. Like when the NRA claimed that Australian restrictions on semi-automatics led to a violent crime wave. It did nothing of the sort. Those are just lies.

tazzygirl -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 11:05:39 PM)
Isnt it amazing that all these unused accounts just pop up in the political forum on a BDSM site?

Awareness -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 11:09:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne whats this another fuckin brit trying to tell americans to ban arms and how to live? What's this? Another pussy-ass American who's too weak to even roll over in his sleep without a gun to make him feel like a man? Big surprise. quote: YOu just better be nice because there are 300 million people in the US and 302 MILLION "known" arms in the hands of the public. Thats more than the armys of the world combined. Yes and 12 men with a plan killed 3 and a half thousand of you. Don't be so fucking stupid you gung-ho obsessive. If might makes right, believe me, you're gonna be bending the knee to the Chinese.

Awareness -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/15/2011 11:15:06 PM)
Kirata your example 100% supports exactly what I said. Namely that easy access to weapons means an arms race between criminal and victim. So much so, that anyone who enters your society who isn't carrying is subject to immediate disadvantage, danger and threat. In other words, your society is inherently more violent and dangerous because of the easy access to weapons. Whereas tourists from countries who don't have the same kind of gun obsession simply don't carry because they do not need to. Yes, too bad we can't say that about everyone - because if we could, the illogic of a people trying to claim increased safety in the country which is clearly and demonstrably more dangerous would be obvious to everyone. Sadly, the lust for the gun blinds people to simple logic.

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