John Demjanjuk convicted (Full Version)

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BonesFromAsh -> John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 10:31:13 AM)

Demjanjuk convicted over Nazi camp deaths

quote:



Retired U.S. autoworker John Demjanjuk was convicted of thousands of counts of acting as an accessory to murder at a Nazi death camp and sentenced on Thursday to five years in prison before judges ordered him released pending an appeal.

Demjanjuk was found guilty of 28,060 counts of being an accessory to murder, one for each person who died during the time he was ruled to have been a guard at the Sobibor camp in Nazi-occupied Poland.


Just curious to read opinions on this verdict.




popeye1250 -> RE: John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 11:09:51 AM)

This is the type of person who can sneak in under the radar when we don't properly vet people seeking to get into the U.S.
How long was he here before he was found out?
And some people think we should legalize 15 million illegal aliens? How could you <possably> do an effective background check on that many people? And who'd pay for it? Not this Taxpayer! And most countries just don't keep any type of criminal records on people.
If we can't do a proper and thourough background check on someone they shouldn't get in, period. And that means whole countries should be excluded. I don't know why people "feel sorry" for immigrants or illegal aliens then to have one rape or murder our citizens. We need to err on the side of safety and that means having the people in govt. learn how to say "NO!"
I think it should be *extremely difficult* to get into the U.S. either through legal channels or physically over a border.
This isn't "1900" anymore.
Look at what happens when *our govt* didn't do it's job! We get fucking NAZIS!!!
And what we *do* get from our government is more excuses as to why a NAZI got in!




pahunkboy -> RE: John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 11:18:48 AM)

--hmm.   Nothing like wrapping things up in a timely  manner.   lol




kdsub -> RE: John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 11:18:54 AM)

Just me but I think it should have been life...which would not be too long for a 91 year old.

Butch




BonesFromAsh -> RE: John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 11:39:57 AM)

Here's another interesting bit of information....

FBI thought Soviet Union's John Demjanjuk evidence was faked

quote:


An FBI report kept secret for 25 years said the Soviet Union “quite likely fabricated” evidence central to the prosecution of John Demjanjuk — a revelation that could help the defense as closing arguments resume Wednesday in the retired Ohio auto worker’s Nazi war crimes trial in Germany.

The newly declassified FBI field office report, obtained by The Associated Press, casts doubt on the authenticity of a Nazi ID card that is the key piece of evidence in allegations that Demjanjuk served as a guard at the Sobibor death camp in occupied Poland.

Throughout three decades of U.S. hearings, an extradition, a death sentence followed by acquittal in Israel, a deportation and now a trial in Munich, the arguments have relied heavily on the photo ID from an SS training camp that indicates Demjanjuk was sent to Sobibor.

Claims that the card and other evidence against Demjanjuk are Soviet forgeries have repeatedly been made by Demjanjuk’s defense attorneys. However, the FBI report provides the first known confirmation that American investigators had similar doubts.

“Justice is ill-served in the prosecution of an American citizen on evidence which is not only normally inadmissible in a court of law, but based on evidence and allegations quite likely fabricated by the KGB,” the FBI’s Cleveland field office said in the 1985 report, four years after the Soviets had shown U.S. investigators the card.


Who do you believe?




willbeurdaddy -> RE: John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 11:56:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

Here's another interesting bit of information....

FBI thought Soviet Union's John Demjanjuk evidence was faked

quote:


An FBI report kept secret for 25 years said the Soviet Union “quite likely fabricated” evidence central to the prosecution of John Demjanjuk — a revelation that could help the defense as closing arguments resume Wednesday in the retired Ohio auto worker’s Nazi war crimes trial in Germany.

The newly declassified FBI field office report, obtained by The Associated Press, casts doubt on the authenticity of a Nazi ID card that is the key piece of evidence in allegations that Demjanjuk served as a guard at the Sobibor death camp in occupied Poland.

Throughout three decades of U.S. hearings, an extradition, a death sentence followed by acquittal in Israel, a deportation and now a trial in Munich, the arguments have relied heavily on the photo ID from an SS training camp that indicates Demjanjuk was sent to Sobibor.

Claims that the card and other evidence against Demjanjuk are Soviet forgeries have repeatedly been made by Demjanjuk’s defense attorneys. However, the FBI report provides the first known confirmation that American investigators had similar doubts.

“Justice is ill-served in the prosecution of an American citizen on evidence which is not only normally inadmissible in a court of law, but based on evidence and allegations quite likely fabricated by the KGB,” the FBI’s Cleveland field office said in the 1985 report, four years after the Soviets had shown U.S. investigators the card.


Who do you believe?


You can believe the FBI report and still convict




rulemylife -> RE: John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 5:01:24 PM)

This has been going on since I was a teenager.

The Justice Department has continuously hounded this man.

The original charges were he entered the country fraudulently by concealing his identity.

They charged him with being a brutal, murderous death camp guard nicknamed Ivan the Terrible.

He was brought to trial in Israel based on eyewitness testimony from people who claimed to be able to identify him 40 years later.

It turned out that Ivan the Terrible was not Ivan (John) Demjanjuk but someone who resembled him named Ivan Marchenko.

The Israelis released him.

I don't know whether Demjanjuk was ever pressed into service by the Nazis.  There were many Ukrainian POW's who were given the choice of execution or service to the German Army.

What I do know is that the Justice Department has changed their allegations numerous times after they were proven untrue.

Ivan the Not-So-Terrible - TIME





pahunkboy -> RE: John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 5:05:57 PM)

I really did think they got all those guys.  I mean- look how many years it has been. 




BonesFromAsh -> RE: John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 5:11:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

This has been going on since I was a teenager.


Yep, me too. I remember hearing about it on the news (good old WEWS) and wondering how...so many different "how" questions.

quote:



I don't know whether Demjanjuk was ever pressed into service by the Nazis.  There were many Ukrainian POW's who were given the choice of execution or service to the German Army.

What I do know is that the Justice Department has changed their allegations numerous times after they were proven untrue.

Ivan the Not-So-Terrible - TIME




Which is why I ask ...who do you believe?




rulemylife -> RE: John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 5:16:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I really did think they got all those guys.  I mean- look how many years it has been. 


What is really astounding is how many of "those guys" were brought here after the war so our government could exploit their knowledge.

Wernher von Braun developed the V-2 rocket for the Nazis which devastated England and he was an officer in the Waffen-SS.

Yet he was brought here after the war and was hailed as a hero because of his work in our space program.







pahunkboy -> RE: John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 7:04:14 PM)

Operation paper clip. 




Owner59 -> RE: John Demjanjuk convicted (5/12/2011 7:13:57 PM)


He entered the US with a false ID and got deported for it. buh-bie

I remember von Braun being interviewed about the war and his role.He was absolutely sure he was going to "get his teeth kicked in" when he was arrested but remembers instead being asked if he wanted some eggs.He was one of the lucky ones with something to bargain with.

There were a lot of guys who slipped through the cracks with and without our help.Evading justice for decades though, isn`t an excuse let that continue or a reason to rap law-enforcement.Cops are only human too.




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