RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 6:49:34 AM)

OK taz, I guess it's time for a real response here.

The founders of this country were racist, of that there is no doubt. They were also wealthy, the kind of people we need to shoot today. As much as I "love" this country, it's like a dog that saved your life, but keeps on shitting in your Cheerios. Literally.

Someone posted a vid of a stoopid tea partier who was in congress or something saying that our founders worked tirelessly to end slavery. It was a reall hoot because half of them owned slaves. Another thing that people don't realize is that most of the founders wanted to exclude Jews. Of course that could not be reconciled with freedom of religion, so it didn't happen. They didn't consider the natives to even be human. And, they let Blacks vote before they let Women vote.

Sounds like a nice crowd huh. But their ideals are not taught in the schools, and I can only judge by their actions. But with the thinking machine in omnidirectional mode I can figure a few things out. They were never out to make a utopia for all, they were out to conquer a country, one that hadn't even been formed yet. They were conquerors, not saviors. They were takers, not givers. They had a bunch of money, where do you think they got it ? People think they were a bunch of Jesus Christs back then, but nothing could be farther from the truth.

The rights they bestowed on the commoner was not to be right with their God or anything, they cared about God just about as much as I do. They bestowed those "rights" to make sure they sufficient popular support for defense, the wars.

They were not Mr. Goodytwoshoes, by any means. They were bad to the bone, loaded up with money and gonads and were actually traitors to their "former" country. This is what alot of people miss. So when you see the injustices of the past in this country, it's not all that hard to figure out why. But they do deserve a measure of respect because they had alot of goddamn balls. Remember they also had money. Upstarts actually, who told their King to go fuck off. And they would have never done it if they could've made enough money under English law. That's right, they founded this country because it was in their own best interest to do so.

Now I am going to take this to another level, and it may make me the object of hatred but you know, I don't fucking care. And especially because I am going to make the case so well I might just get thrown the fuck outta here.

What is a separatist ? Well I am and the founders of this country were. I am a White separatist. I am a separatist and I am white, so I guess you need Lon Horiuchi over here to shoot my olady, dog and maybe my kid. The only difference is that I don't sell sawedoff shotguns, I buy them.

You go to a family function, Christmas or whatever, B'day parties and all that. Who is there ? People who are like you, your kinfolk. Very few others. Well as a separatist I want a whole neighborhood that way. Why can't I have that ?

Actually I've approached it in a different way, by accepting my neighbors into my chosen family, at least some of them. There are two rentals across the street and the guy who owns them will rent to anyone who has the money. The renters come and go. Sooner or later we might get around to burning his shit down, but things are OK for now, so it's not a priority. In fact the assholes he rents to are sometimes amusing, they make life interesting, in a Jerry Springeresque way. Louie was a trip, he stole about fifty cars from the airport and had them all parked up on the sidestreet. He was a blast. I don't think I ever met anyone stoooopider that him. So that random element isn't so bad.

So forget the Black White bullshit. Why can't I have a Polok neuighborhood ? "MOM, Mrs. Czwyck's halubkies are almost as good as yours". Italian neighborhood "Mama, Mrs. Bugoti's spaghetti sauce is almost as good as yours". Why can't I have that ?

Wel actually I can, and I alnmost did. With a few exceptions almost every house around here has been for sale at one time or another. They didn't get cheap enough though. Two Men, my Father and I simply couldn't buy up the neighborhood. We came close but all kinds of shit happened over the years. If I own all the property, I say who lives here, in MY neighborhood. Anti-discrimination laws, fukum. Even if the hammer came down that would be handled easily. Fuck the government, and in that way I am a bit like the founding Fathers of this country. In fact is if there was any land left I might just do what they did. But I am not Jesus, I wouldn't do it unless it was beneficial to me. And neither would they. And they didn't.

Fuck the new tea party, remember the old tea party. What was that all about ? TAXES ! Come on, you think those people got rich enough to found a new country by working at a saloon ? (well at some places the tips are really good). They wer loaded and full of themselves, just like Georgie boy Bush. In a way he is the American dream, despite how badly he fucked the place up. Hubris and greed started this country and it is exactly that which is going to end it.

T^T




Moonhead -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 7:25:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
It rationalizes stealthily class and race prejudice by assuming property is more important than life and pretending we have no social contract or obligation other than what we wish to distribute by way of charity.

Which latter is particularly funny, given how many members of the plutocracy would rather eat their own leg than contribute anything to charity.
The only reason American charities get the bare trickle they get from the ruling classes now is that the donators can write it off as a tax dodge, so the idea that they'd keep doing that if they didn't have to give a pittance to charity to weasel out of paying the pittance the taxman fancies is little short of hysterical.




DomKen -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 7:45:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: douinjoisukenkak

His point is spot on. You either believe the in how our government was set up to govern or you do not. Sadly the majority of Americans believe the federal government should have the greatest control of their day to day lives when in fact it should be the states. But hey don't take my word for it just read the constitution.

I'm something of a student of US history and the US Constitution and you're wrong.

After the Revolution we briefly operated under the Articles of Confederation. Which was a strong states, weak central government document. It failed miserably.

The Constitutional Convention was called to fix the Articles but it was decided fairly quickly that an entire new document was required. The Constitution that emerged was a blueprint for a Federal system. IOW a powerful central government and weaker states. The debate between the federalists and antifederalists before the states ratified the Constitution made that clear.

The supremacy of the federal government over the states was made clear during the Civil War when the federal government forcibly reintegrated rebellious states into the nation.

Just to make the point entirely clear the 14th Amendment was ratified which requires the states to honor the rights and privileges enshrined at the federal level.




hot4bondage -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 8:24:06 AM)

Let's stay on target. The choice is not between property and life. It's between property rights and forced equality in the private sector. Nice try.




DomKen -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 8:29:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

Let's stay on target. The choice is not between property and life. It's between property rights and forced equality in the private sector. Nice try.

Actually the choice was between property rights and life. People were being killed for trying to eat lunch before the Civil Rights Act was passed.

Do not forget Lester Maddox and the pick handles.




zenny -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 9:03:47 AM)

Ahh, music to my eyes! And like everything else, you can't back it up. This feels familiar already. [:)]




hot4bondage -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 11:55:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

Let's stay on target. The choice is not between property and life. It's between property rights and forced equality in the private sector. Nice try.

Actually the choice was between property rights and life. People were being killed for trying to eat lunch before the Civil Rights Act was passed.

Do not forget Lester Maddox and the pick handles.


No. Here's the quote.

"Libertarianism in the American style is utopian nonsense: attractive and appealing to muse over but impractical in application for the simple reason that it gives free reign to unregulated greed. It is only a stalking horse for social darwinism to which the ascendent and privileged class members rally. It rationalizes stealthily class and race prejudice by assuming property is more important than life and pretending we have no social contract or obligation other than what we wish to distribute by way of charity."

The post replaces the phrase "property rights" with "property." That confuses liberty with materialism. The author then suggests that Libertarians value materialism over life. That tactic is called setting up a strawman. My point is that if one confuses property rights with greed and murder, it will cloud their reasoning on this issue. That's all. Argue aqainst property rights if you must, but stay on target.




DomKen -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 12:13:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

Let's stay on target. The choice is not between property and life. It's between property rights and forced equality in the private sector. Nice try.

Actually the choice was between property rights and life. People were being killed for trying to eat lunch before the Civil Rights Act was passed.

Do not forget Lester Maddox and the pick handles.


No. Here's the quote.

"Libertarianism in the American style is utopian nonsense: attractive and appealing to muse over but impractical in application for the simple reason that it gives free reign to unregulated greed. It is only a stalking horse for social darwinism to which the ascendent and privileged class members rally. It rationalizes stealthily class and race prejudice by assuming property is more important than life and pretending we have no social contract or obligation other than what we wish to distribute by way of charity."

The post replaces the phrase "property rights" with "property." That confuses liberty with materialism. The author then suggests that Libertarians value materialism over life. That tactic is called setting up a strawman. My point is that if one confuses property rights with greed and murder, it will cloud their reasoning on this issue. That's all. Argue aqainst property rights if you must, but stay on target.

Post Ayn Randian libertarians are all about property. To claim otherwise is to ignore facts plain before your face. In short and simple terms, they have theirs and to hell with everyone else.




tazzygirl -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 12:30:11 PM)

The 3/5's compromise was just that... a compromise between no ability to vote and full rights... the compromise being between the southern states and the northern.

If you are looking for an argument against what you wrote, you wont find it here. My post was towards the idiot who believes in the "sanctity" of the original constitution and how we must follow such.




tazzygirl -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 12:31:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

Ahh, music to my eyes! And like everything else, you can't back it up. This feels familiar already. [:)]


rofl... your eyes hear music! and you question others???




Moonhead -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 12:33:01 PM)

Synaesthesia is a serious problem among schizophrenics, tazzy: you shouldn't mock.




tazzygirl -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 12:33:29 PM)

I sowwy!




hot4bondage -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 12:38:21 PM)

Again, there is a difference between wanting property and wanting property rights. Even Hugo Chavez is "all about property" when he confiscates private industry.




zenny -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 12:57:14 PM)

Well... I am reading the forum, not listening to it. Would you prefer a descriptor of "eyegasm"? Must have never used a visualizer. And you question the stability of my mind and its prowess. Forsooth!

At least I have an excuse to use these smileys now [sm=boxer.gif] . Come on, put'em up!




tazzygirl -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 1:08:37 PM)

Oh grow up,. grow a set of balls, and run back to your inch growing cock from rubbing your gun.




Lucylastic -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 1:12:26 PM)

see im being good I cancelled it, you have mail Tazzy:)




rulemylife -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 1:14:32 PM)

I think Ron Paul just needs to get laid.

I'm guessing it has been at least 20 years.

Maybe I'll start a poll on it.

And I heard Rand took a vow of celibacy.




tazzygirl -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 2:08:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

see im being good I cancelled it, you have mail Tazzy:)



You ARE being good... [;)]




outhere69 -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 2:36:21 PM)

Nah, she just poly!

It seems like a ton of libertarians forget that Rand wrote fiction.




Real0ne -> RE: Ron Paul pounds another nail into his coffin. (5/15/2011 2:38:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The 3/5's compromise was just that... a compromise between no ability to vote and full rights... the compromise being between the southern states and the northern.

If you are looking for an argument against what you wrote, you wont find it here. My post was towards the idiot who believes in the "sanctity" of the original constitution and how we must follow such.


There were several versions that are not to be found. 

The most popular one is the 186x rewrite




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