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RE: algebra calculator - 5/16/2011 9:30:20 PM   
littlewonder


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thankfully I've always worked clerical jobs my entire life where a computer program did all the math for me. Otherwise I'd be screwed.

Punch in one number, punch in another, hit enter and I have my answer. If I actually had to figure it out on paper or in my head I'd be working overtime every night.

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/16/2011 9:31:31 PM   
Musicmystery


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I'm good, thanks...I was a math wiz. Won a bunch of competitions even.

So naturally I went into completely different fields....

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/16/2011 9:34:23 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Might it be worth talking to a dean to see if there's another math class--geometry, statistics?--you could take in place of algebra?


Statistics instead of algebra? Are you crazy?



Is statistics even worse? I haven't taken it myself.


From what I've heard, stats is a nightmare. I heard several students at a junior college I attended say they were good at math but were flunking stats. My Sir is a college student majoring in accounting so he's good at math and he got a D in stats. In the past he has tried to explain algebra to me and I still couldn't understand it.

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/16/2011 9:36:23 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Might it be worth talking to a dean to see if there's another math class--geometry, statistics?--you could take in place of algebra?


Statistics instead of algebra? Are you crazy?



Is statistics even worse? I haven't taken it myself.



Try is using algebraic equations to find ratios, averages, and to map a bell curve

There is more to it than that, but it is just a sampling of the crap you do in stats... and they expect you to know how to solve an equation.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/16/2011 9:37:10 PM >


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RE: algebra calculator - 5/16/2011 9:36:42 PM   
Musicmystery


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OK.

If he whips you with two cross strokes, that's an X. If he does it ten times, that's 10X.

Making sense so far?


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RE: algebra calculator - 5/16/2011 9:48:48 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


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defiantbadgirl, hello. 

Check your college about free tutoring.  Long time ago I was on a Pell grant and was allowed to work some hours at the tutoring center each week, and it costed the other students nothing.  There was even a retired math professor who used to volunteer hours of his day tutoring students in Algebra and Trig...and stuff I will never understand.  

As for the next part, I was part of a homeschooler group and many parents saw to it that their kids learned math that they themselves had long forgotten.  Some hired tutors or used computer programs, but another I knew didn't have to.  Her son went to Youtube and looked under Algebra, and found the online lessons he needed.  For free.  It was in movie like clips that explained everything he needed to know.  (His mom was giving me a high five over not having to pay for a tutor, lol.)

Btw, my ex-hubby and I met in college.  I was tutoring him in English, lol, and he was taking Trig and tutored me in math that he had taken years before. 

You have several options, and I hope you find something that works for you. 

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/16/2011 9:51:07 PM   
LanceHughes


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My least favorite "problems" were mixtures with ages a close second.

Those are beginning algebra.  Advanced algebra is almost always linear equations and some analtical geometry.

For example:  Given the equation of a circle as:  (x-8)^2 + (y+5)^2 = 64, where does the circle intersect the y-axis?

Kinda hard to think of an application in daily life, isn't it?

Here's the WAY to solve..... The y-axis is all number pairs with X=0...... so, we're looking for solutions to the equation:

(0-8)^2 + (y+5)^2 = 64

(-8)^2 + (y+5)^2 = 64

(-8 * -8) + (y+5)^2 = 64

64 + (y+5)^2 = 64

Subtract 64 from both sides to get:

(y+5)^2 = 0

Now it gets a little tricky

ANY binomial (like y+5 which is a bi-nomial = 2 terms/names added or subtracted)  when multiplyed by another (here they are the same)  has a pattern which you can see if you do a little side calcualation  - just like long multiplication.

           y + 5
           y + 5
     =======
         5y + 25
y^2 + y5
=========
y^2 + 10 y + 25

A trick is FOIL = First Outer Inner Last   (y+5)(y+5) = First terms = y*y; Outer terms = y*5, Inner terms = 5*y, Last terms = 5 * 5.

The trick is NOT in the same order as the long multiplication idea, but I hope you see that we can now get back to the last version of the equation which was :

(y+5)^2 = 0

We replace our binomial squared with the result above and get:

y^2 + 10*y + 25= 0

What to do with that mess?

Well, such a formual has a name - and a worked out solution.

Last week we learned about quadratic formulas and we can write the worked out solution as

y = (-10 +/- sqrt (10^2 -4*25)) / 2

NOW, you do aritmetic over and over and come to

y = -5

Guess what?  We expected the line to intersect the circle in TWO places.  But we only find ONE answer because the circle just touches the line.

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/16/2011 10:01:32 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Here's the problem.....I think. When I was a kid (I'm 37 now) two people were able to explain math in a way I could understand it. Those people were my grandmother and my 3rd grade teacher who was close to retirement age. With the younger teachers, I either figured the math out myself or took it to my grandmother and she explained it. Listening to most of the younger teachers explan math confused me. Sadly since my grandmother taught grades 1-8 years before I was born, she was unfamiliar with geometry and when I got to that level, she could no longer help me. If she had been familiar with advanced math, I'm certain she could have explained it. All of the teachers who explained math the old way are either dead now or close to it. Now there are only the new methods that confuse the hell out of me. That's why I'm only interested in typing numbers in a calculator. The old methods of teaching math that I actually understood are gone.

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/16/2011 10:13:38 PM   
LanceHughes


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Clear as MUD!

The general idea is get an equation in one variable.  Then apply certain ideas to the forumla as NEEDED - eventually, the answer comes out in the form variable = constant.  Like our Y = -5 above.

The BIG idea is to recognize the patterns.  Oh, this needs subtraction from both sides, this is a binomial squared, this is a quadratic..... each time the particualr pattern is recognized, you apply some trick, some reducing formula that brings you closer to home.....

Advanced algebra?  More patterns to recognize, more steps.

Beginning algebra?

If Sue has 30 apples and gives Jim 10 % of them, how many does she give Jim?

J = 30 * .10

If  Bill is twice as old as his son, Ted and Bill was married at age 28 and Ted was born 2 years after Bill married, how old is Ted now?

Bill married:  B = 28
Bill when Ted was born:  B = 30
Each year after Ted was born, we have T+1 means B=30+1; T+2 means B=32 and so on.... but NOW we also have B = 2 * T;  or B = T + T
So, we could write T+T means B = 30 + T ;  subtract T from each one and we see T = 30 and B = 60



< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 5/16/2011 10:17:58 PM >


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RE: algebra calculator - 5/16/2011 10:16:04 PM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Here's the problem.....I think. When I was a kid (I'm 37 now) two people were able to explain math in a way I could understand it. Those people were my grandmother and my 3rd grade teacher who was close to retirement age. With the younger teachers, I either figured the math out myself or took it to my grandmother and she explained it. Listening to most of the younger teachers explan math confused me. Sadly since my grandmother taught grades 1-8 years before I was born, she was unfamiliar with geometry and when I got to that level, she could no longer help me. If she had been familiar with advanced math, I'm certain she could have explained it. All of the teachers who explained math the old way are either dead now or close to it. Now there are only the new methods that confuse the hell out of me. That's why I'm only interested in typing numbers in a calculator. The old methods of teaching math that I actually understood are gone.


I could NOT agree more.

Wish I had you here.  I teach the old way <but without the canes.... oh, you WANT the canes?  I'll see what I can do. > 

// Lance rummages for canes. //

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/16/2011 11:30:57 PM   
Edwynn


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D'badgirl,

Talk to your academic adviser. Most universities have one or two prep-level algebra classes available for those who didn't have enough (or none) of it it  in HS to be equipped for college algebra. You could look in your school catalog but I'm not sure if every undergrad catalog lists those classes. If not listed with the other math courses (should be first in the list if there) check with the adviser to make sure.

If your school does not have such classes, every Jr./community college has them. Many of those prep level courses are self-paced. The instructor gives a lecture on the chapter (usually short ones) and then everyone works on their own, any with questions approach the instructor's desk and get individual help.

Highly recommended.

I had no HS algebra, forgot whatever I had in Jr. high, but I finished both prep levels in one quarter and they did the job. Made a B in college algebra, but that woke me up and I made A's in pre-calc and calc I.

And even an A in statistics years later, but after I took college algebra again because it had been so long.


But do seek out those prep algebra courses.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 5/16/2011 11:32:44 PM >

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/17/2011 6:01:13 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Here's the problem.....I think. When I was a kid (I'm 37 now) two people were able to explain math in a way I could understand it. Those people were my grandmother and my 3rd grade teacher who was close to retirement age. With the younger teachers, I either figured the math out myself or took it to my grandmother and she explained it. Listening to most of the younger teachers explan math confused me. Sadly since my grandmother taught grades 1-8 years before I was born, she was unfamiliar with geometry and when I got to that level, she could no longer help me. If she had been familiar with advanced math, I'm certain she could have explained it. All of the teachers who explained math the old way are either dead now or close to it. Now there are only the new methods that confuse the hell out of me. That's why I'm only interested in typing numbers in a calculator. The old methods of teaching math that I actually understood are gone.


I don't know about the rest of the country, but in public schools in Broward County, FL they started teaching math the way my dad learned it in the 1930's-40's! Maybe there is hope for you to find someone who can explain it to you that way again.

Either that or PM me on the other side, I can get my dad to help you. He's amazing!

**edited to add- I just read Lance's post. He's amazing too. Might be worth a trip to see him... for a bunch of reasons... (cough)

< Message edited by BossyShoeBitch -- 5/17/2011 6:04:11 AM >


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RE: algebra calculator - 5/17/2011 7:08:57 AM   
DesFIP


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The problem with using a calculator for everyday assignments is that you'll fail all the exams. Will the 20% passing from your homework assignments overcome the 50% fail of the exams?

What I suggest is that you find a pass/fail algebra class at a local community college, take that easier class and transfer the credit over to your four year college.

With that said, my daughter just graduated college and missed cum laude by .03%, all because she barely managed to pass Spanish with a D-. She passed it but the bad grade needed 3 more years of good grades before she qualified for the honor society.


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RE: algebra calculator - 5/17/2011 7:26:59 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Here's the problem.....I think. When I was a kid (I'm 37 now) two people were able to explain math in a way I could understand it. Those people were my grandmother and my 3rd grade teacher who was close to retirement age. With the younger teachers, I either figured the math out myself or took it to my grandmother and she explained it. Listening to most of the younger teachers explan math confused me. Sadly since my grandmother taught grades 1-8 years before I was born, she was unfamiliar with geometry and when I got to that level, she could no longer help me. If she had been familiar with advanced math, I'm certain she could have explained it. All of the teachers who explained math the old way are either dead now or close to it. Now there are only the new methods that confuse the hell out of me. That's why I'm only interested in typing numbers in a calculator. The old methods of teaching math that I actually understood are gone.



I do not believe this is necessarily so. There are always several ways to explain how to work a problem. If you received special tutoring help, they would be familiar with all of the different methods there are of working problems. This is why they are math tutors...

You could also try finding old Algebra textbooks to see if they had examples you understand better

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/17/2011 7:32:15 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Here's the problem.....I think. When I was a kid (I'm 37 now) two people were able to explain math in a way I could understand it. Those people were my grandmother and my 3rd grade teacher who was close to retirement age. With the younger teachers, I either figured the math out myself or took it to my grandmother and she explained it. Listening to most of the younger teachers explan math confused me. Sadly since my grandmother taught grades 1-8 years before I was born, she was unfamiliar with geometry and when I got to that level, she could no longer help me. If she had been familiar with advanced math, I'm certain she could have explained it. All of the teachers who explained math the old way are either dead now or close to it. Now there are only the new methods that confuse the hell out of me. That's why I'm only interested in typing numbers in a calculator. The old methods of teaching math that I actually understood are gone.


The old way of teaching algebra? You have to be kidding me. There is no old versus new way for algebra.

Now, people do have different learning and teaching styles. But there is nothing new in college algebra now that was not there when my dad took it.

I noticed that you never bothered to answer me on how much study time you were spending. There is a good chance that is your issue. Buying a graphing claculator instead of actually taking the 20-24 hours (maths are usually 4 credits, I think) a week studying the subject on top of your class time is not going to help learn it.

This is a case of where the only way to get to easy with the math is to go through the hard first.


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RE: algebra calculator - 5/17/2011 7:59:39 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Lol my human brain earned me a 4.0 GPA three semesters in a row because none of those classes were math. I had to drop algebra because nobody could explain it to me in a way I could understand it. I'm eventually going to have to pass it though if I want a degree and I don't want to lose my financial aid in the process. Order of operations gets very confusing in advanced algebra. I need a calculator to get me through this.

A graphing calculator will do most of it but you need to understand the equation to input it.

As to order of operations it is really very simple. The basic rule is parentheses first then multiplication/division then addition/subtraction.

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/17/2011 8:07:01 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Might it be worth talking to a dean to see if there's another math class--geometry, statistics?--you could take in place of algebra?

Sometimes Geometry can be easier for some people (assuming you can get the basic concepts of algebra down). Personally I've always felt advanced algebra and geometry should be taught together, it is two ways to appoach the same problems. You need a srong foundation in each to do trig or calculus.

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/17/2011 10:31:50 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Is your problem solving an equation that is presented to you, formulating an equation from a word problem or both?

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/17/2011 4:37:56 PM   
DarkSteven


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If it's the word problems, let me know.  I tutored algebra through PDE for five years, and tutoring word problems was my specialty.

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RE: algebra calculator - 5/17/2011 4:46:17 PM   
DameBruschetta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I thought people with dyscalculia couldn't figure any math at all, including basic math. Am I wrong? Does dyscalculia only affect algebra? Also, there are a lot of people out there with degrees who need a calculator for basic math (which I don't). How did they get through it when they know even less than I do?


Dyscalculia is a broad term, and there are varying degrees in which people suffer from it. People with dyscalculia often have issues visualizing the numbers and sitations and end up either not understanding how to apply what they know or mix up the numbers in a word, sequencing.  Some people with it have issues with money, time, recalling things, strategy games, or even mixing up names or faces.  Some people have issues remembering a math concept from one day to the next.  It really is more of an umbrella term for many learning disabilities that are associated with math.  We here about dyslexia a lot but dyscalculia is not known as well - a lot of this comes from the fact that many of us were "taught" that math was hard or that it was natural to have issues understanding it.  We end up getting taught a lot of the coping strategies one would recommend and a lot of the more mild cases of it are never recognized for what they are.  You sound like you possibly have problems understanding the concepts or applying the concepts, there is a good chance its not dyscalculia but many people with it have issues doing just that.  Not everyone that has problems with math has it, but it might be something for you to think about (because I would hate for you to give up on the idea of a degree just because you have issues with math and end up feeling like you cannot conquer it.) 

I do happen to have dyscalculia, I was diagnosed after I got my degree... after studying psy for years and taking two stats courses and seeing my own errors in what I was doing and the whole pattern of my life when it came to math.  I managed to pass through my math courses, a lot of them by the skin of my teeth with a just credit worthy C.  I can understand your fustration - trust me I can! Many people (even those without this learning disability so to speak) have issues remembering and applying math.  I can tell you, I loved stats - the concept of stats anyway.  I can explain it to you but actually doing the formulations long hand without using a statistical program?  Can't do it, somewhere I'll mess it up.  Algebra was hell, I have issues putting things in the right sequence - even though I understand how it works there will be a disconnect inserting the number or figuring it out and misinterpreting it somewhere on the calculator or plugging in the result in the next part of the equation. If I am not using a concept on a daily basis, I won't be able to remember it so constant practice was a big deal - forget the little basic things and you forget how to do the complicated things.

I can tell you a lot of your success is going to depend on getting the right instructor - someone who is willing to give you points for questions if you're getting part of it or the concept behind it right.  Many math instructors know its hard!  If you make an effort and they see you make an effort and you come to them for help many of them will try to help you, maybe its class participation points, maybe its something else.  Most of them are out there to help you not hurt you. (Part of why you see those people you mention who need calculators ;) but also because math for most people can be use it or loose it.  Don't use complicated math on a daily basis?  Most likely not going to remember the complicated things.)  A lot of it is going to depend on getting help and putting in effort (practice does help to an extent) and part of it is really going to figure out coping strategies.  I am not trying to pick on you when I say this, but sooo much of it is going to depend on the basics so really, the more you can learn the better.  If you don't get the basic stuff its going to be very very hard to even get the right answer on a calculator because you are still going to have to understand the concept to plug it in.  None of the calculators you buy are really going to just give you the answer - but a lot of the questions you'll see are the ones in the book and the more you know those the easier that same answer is going to come when you have to work it out.  I know you may not want to do this because it won't count towards credits but I would really recommend taking a pre-algebra course.  It will help you get a handle on the basics and will really make moving into algebra easier if you suspect it will already be difficult.  The graphing calculator will help a lot when you get to stats, because much of what you need to do is just plugging in numbers where they belong and hitting the equal button.  Most of the algebra you can do on the calculator is going to be plugging in basic math to plug into an equation to form another basic math equation.  It won't help you near as much as you think.

I've struggled with math issues my whole life - if I can get my degree and produce a quality statistical research project worthy of publication... I know you can manage to get through your fundamental math courses.  You just have to have faith, put forth the effort and accept that it may not happen easily or quickly as you hoped.

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