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The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/16/2011 10:41:07 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Monday gave police more leeway to break into residences in search of illegal drugs.

The justices in an 8-1 decision said officers who loudly knock on a door and then hear sounds suggesting evidence is being destroyed may break down the door and enter without a search warrant.

Residents who "attempt to destroy evidence have only themselves to blame" when police burst in, said Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr.

In a lone dissent, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said she feared the ruling in a Kentucky case will give police an easy way to ignore the 4th Amendment. "Police officers may not knock, listen and then break the door down," she said, without violating the 4th Amendment.

In the past, the court has said police usually may not enter a home unless they have a search warrant or the permission of the owner. As Alito said, "The 4th Amendment has drawn a firm line at the entrance to the house."

One exception to that rule involves an emergency, such as screams coming from a house. Police may also pursue a fleeing suspect who enters a residence. Police were attempting to do that in the Kentucky case, but they entered the wrong apartment, raising the issue of what is permissible in situations where police have reason to believe evidence is being destroyed.

It began when police in Lexington, Ky., were following a suspect who allegedly had sold crack cocaine to an informer and then walked into an apartment building. They did not see which apartment he entered, but when they smelled marijuana smoke come from one of the apartments, they wrongly assumed he had gone into that one. They pounded on the door and called "Police. Police. Police," and heard the sounds of people moving.

At this, the officers announced they were coming in, and they broke down the door. They found Hollis King smoking marijuana, and put him under arrest. They also found powder cocaine. King was convicted of drug trafficking and sentenced to 11 years in prison.

But the Kentucky Supreme Court overturned his conviction and ruled the apartment break-in violated his 4th Amendment right against "unreasonable searches and seizures." Police had created an emergency by pounding on the door, the state justices said.

The Supreme Court heard an appeal from state prosecutors and reversed the ruling in Kentucky vs. King. Alito said the police conduct in this case "was entirely lawful," and they were justified in breaking down the door to prevent the destruction of the evidence.

"When law enforcement officers who are not armed with a warrant knock on a door, they do no more than any private citizen may do," he wrote. A resident need not respond, he added. But the sounds of people moving and perhaps toilets being flushed could justify police entering without a warrant, he added.

"Destruction of evidence issues probably occur most frequently in drug cases because drugs may be easily destroyed by flushing down a toilet," he added.

http://www.latimes.com/news/sc-dc-0517-court-search-20110516,0,6820148.story?track=rss

So, you are smoking pot in the privacy of your home, the police smell it, bang in the door and bust in... guess what? You are busted without even a search warrant.

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/16/2011 11:32:54 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Monday gave police more leeway to break into residences in search of illegal drugs.

The justices in an 8-1 decision said officers who loudly knock on a door and then hear sounds suggesting evidence is being destroyed may break down the door and enter without a search warrant. Residents who "attempt to destroy evidence have only themselves to blame" when police burst in, said Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr.

So, you are smoking pot in the privacy of your home, the police smell it, bang in the door and bust in... guess what? You are busted without even a search warrant.


Indeed, I heard this news today; I wasn't too happy about it at all—and I don't smoke or snort anything. Police power is slowly growing in our country, and while amendments like these are made with what I can only hope is sincerely good intent, the wrong that can be done through them is not only likely, but predictable and wholly inevitable, if you have any inkling of how fallible police can be.

I've been watching our priests of the law slowly chip away the 4th amendment since Atwater vs. Lago Vista, where the Supreme Court made it possible for police to arrest you for a minor traffic offense. I don't like the police state directive that seems to be alive and well in the Supreme Court. I think the 8-1 decision to allow what constitutes a free pass for police to invade the privacy of your home is telling enough about the Supreme Court's regard for the right to privacy and safety from wrongful search and seizure.

ETA: Ginsburg's lone dissent is a sign of the times. As far as I'm concerned, she's the only one who deserves to be there as a result of taking that stand; the rest of the court has shown it has favored fascism over what it means to be American. They should, quite simply, be removed.


< Message edited by MarcEsadrian -- 5/16/2011 11:35:01 PM >

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 12:05:09 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		What sort of confuses me is this Court is supposed to be conservative. Isn't the conservative stance less government in our lives?

Though, the Court did add this...

The ruling was not a final loss for King. The justices said the Kentucky state court should consider again whether the police faced an emergency situation in this case.

Guess it goes back to the Kentucky Court.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 5/17/2011 12:07:51 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 1:12:06 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		I've heard it enough times, that it doesn't matter what the Constitution says, what matters is what the court says it says. While this is not good news, it's not unexpected. To review :

The first anemdment doesn't mean you can shout fire in a crowded theater. It seems not to mean a few other things now. You may hate the National Alliance even though they don't hate you, but when they sent out mailers, what happened ? People looked hard for a way to bust them for it. They didn't find one, but things they are a changin'. It's only a matter of time really until you won't be able to say bad things about politicians, true or not. Of course this court has also ruled that politicians as well as the media have the right to lie to the People. Who do you imagine they're working for ?

The second amendment doesn't mean a few things either, that's obvious. The words "shall not be adridged" apparently aren't in the English language now, because if they were their meaning would be quite clear.

The third amendment hasn't really been tested, as far as I know. If it is, how do you think they are going to interpret "as prescribed by law" ? If anything is subject to interpretation, think of the words "compelling public interest". Hell, with eminent domain they don't need your permission to come and stake out or live in your house, they can just take it away and throw you out anyway.

The OP has dealt with the fourth. Anything I would write would be a waste of time.

The fifth amendment has been tested, and failed. Reporters can go to jail for not revealing their sources, due to this compelling public interest. That same interest means that they can take blodod, urine, tissue or any samples the want right off of your body. So much for that one.

The sixth has been gone for a long time. To face your accusers ? Yeah right. You can be accused by a machine now, it happens all the time.

The seventh amendment is out the window. Not only are juries ignorant of their right of nullification, but it's apparently just fine to manipulate them by exclusion of certain evidence. And if that doesn't work it seems to be acceptable to just lie to them.

The eight amendment never was really worth much becasue what constitutes excessive bail, fines or cruel or unusual punishment is a very subjective matter. To me and those I would consider reasonable people it is wrong to punish someone who hasn't hurt anyone. Others do not seem to agree.

The ninth and tenth ? You don't even want to read what I have to say about that. Suffice it to say that they've been gone for a long time, as people slept with their eyes open they were been gutted. The federal government is so out of control now, statehood just isn't worth it. It means nothing.

That's one through ten inclusive. What about the rest ? Assume they hold just about as much weight, and assume the position.

T^T


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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 1:25:06 AM   
Aneirin


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George Orwell's 1984 is on it's way !

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 1:38:30 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		You know, for the first time in a very long time, the SC is making me very nervous.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 2:26:34 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		They seem to have lulled us into a sense of security with the castle law doctrine. So the cops can kick my door down for no reason but I can shoot them ? That's what they said apparently.

T^T

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 5:15:53 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		It is a little different when three liberal justices vote with the conserative majority.

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 5:18:57 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin



George Orwell's 1984 is on it's way !

On its way hell....It's been here for a decade.

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 6:00:38 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		It really is getting to be a nut show-  every day ANOTHER  hit at the constitution.    People must really be animals for the system to be doing this. 

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 6:06:14 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What sort of confuses me is this Court is supposed to be conservative. Isn't the conservative stance less government in our lives?



It's only less government when it is something that coincides with their beliefs.  If it's about gay marriage or any other issue they disagree with they want all the government regulation possible.

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 6:15:39 AM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		This is the part that scares me, how we have Supreme Court Justices with such a distorted sense of reasoning:



The Supreme Court heard an appeal from state prosecutors and reversed the ruling in Kentucky vs. King. Alito said the police conduct in this case "was entirely lawful," and they were justified in breaking down the door to prevent the destruction of the evidence.

"When law enforcement officers who are not armed with a warrant knock on a door, they do no more than any private citizen may do," he wrote. A resident need not respond, he added. But the sounds of people moving and perhaps toilets being flushed could justify police entering without a warrant, he added.

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 6:26:42 AM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Wake up and smell the roses, it's all a conspiracy, we are all being herded into a situation where we just accept, it is happening worldwide, and fear, is one of the motivators, create fear and people suddenlybecome very malleable.

But as another said to me recently on here, the constitution is not cast in stone, but open to ammendment by the Law profession and that dependant on the prevailing conditions of life as it affects..... erm, whoever ?

Always question authority, as to accept without question will be our undoing.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 6:34:32 AM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		The war on drugs and the 4th just don't seem to go well together, do they? My favorite was damn near 20 years ago, when the SC decided that the finding of probable cause to issue a warrant could be based on hearsay.

Legalize it!

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 6:36:45 AM   
BamaD


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Status: offline 		Termyn8or  nice to see someone who has read the constitution and seems to have gotten it!

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 6:39:42 AM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
What sort of confuses me is this Court is supposed to be conservative. Isn't the conservative stance less government in our lives?

It's the difference between conservative and reactionary.  Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and Roberts tend more toward the latter.

Also, different, sometimes inconsistent, and even contradictory worldviews are grouped under the rubric of conservative.  For example, law and order conservatives (more government), social conservatives (more government), and libertarians (less government).

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 6:41:31 AM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
The war on drugs and the 4th just don't seem to go well together, do they?

The 4th has also taken some major hits from the Global War on Terror and the USA PATRIOT Act.

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 6:57:08 AM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
... we are all being herded into a situation where we just accept, it is happening worldwide, and fear, is one of the motivators, create fear and people suddenlybecome very malleable.

This thread on inverted totalitarianism seems germane.

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 6:57:33 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Wake up and smell the roses, it's all a conspiracy, we are all being herded into a situation where we just accept, it is happening worldwide, and fear, is one of the motivators, create fear and people suddenlybecome very malleable.

But as another said to me recently on here, the constitution is not cast in stone, but open to ammendment by the Law profession and that dependant on the prevailing conditions of life as it affects..... erm, whoever ?

Always question authority, as to accept without question will be our undoing.


We are coming from different viewpoints.

I am disagreeing with a Court judgment and you are trying to inflate it to something beyond that.

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RE: The 4th Amendment losing its power - 5/17/2011 7:01:04 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Termyn8or  nice to see someone who has read the constitution and seems to have gotten it!


Yeah, you guys seem to have all "gotten it".

So nice that you provide your time to enlighten the rest of us.

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