quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I would love to see colleges that were completely publicly funded. On the other hand, I was able to get my AA in three years working part time and had no debt. I also had a 4.0 gpa

I was able to get my BA with 5k debt and I did not work at all. I graduated with a 3.96 GPA

I am currently in Grad school, and I only have to finish my thesis to get my MA. I will graduate with about 50k of debt... I have not worked much (although I did work through my first year). I have a 4.0 gpa. Cost of living was the reason I took out student loans (living in Southern California was EXPENSIVE), and there were no grants for living expenses.... my tuition is paid for because of my scholarship.

So, it is expensive to get an education, but you can do it without burying yourself, working limited hours, etc. It does take sacrifice, not everyone is willing to make that sacrifice... in some ways it feels good to have made sacrifices and overcome adversity and succeed anyways, if they took merit away as a criteria to do well, I wonder if that would add to laziness? In California you can get significant help to pay for college if you are a good student. It is how I received my BA with so little expense to myself.

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

Or. . . we need to lower the number of students going to college.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Also, the U.S. educational system works differently than Europe does it. There, only students with aptitude head to appropriate higher educational channels, making standards much easier to maintain. In the U.S., more students than ever before attend college--so if the top 5% of students once attended, and now the top 50% attend, that's quite an impact.

Remember--the goal isn't the paper, but the skills. It's not hard to get just the paper, but 45% of college graduates will get jobs no better than high school graduates, precisely for that reason. Employers care about the skills--and that includes the ability to handle multiple tasks and workloads.

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I don't see anything in your statement about substantially reducing tuition rates, colleges guaranteeing high paying jobs after graduation, or allowing graduates to file bankruptcy on their student loans if they can't pay them. Making college harder without doing any of that only gives the rich who don't have to work during college to avoid mortgage sized debt unfair advantage.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Also, the U.S. educational system works differently than Europe does it. There, only students with aptitude head to appropriate higher educational channels, making standards much easier to maintain. In the U.S., more students than ever before attend college--so if the top 5% of students once attended, and now the top 50% attend, that's quite an impact.

Remember--the goal isn't the paper, but the skills. It's not hard to get just the paper, but 45% of college graduates will get jobs no better than high school graduates, precisely for that reason. Employers care about the skills--and that includes the ability to handle multiple tasks and workloads.

Where I went to school we were required to provide sources.

A whole bunch of numbers without any citations.

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Good thinking.

Let's dumb down the population.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

Or. . . we need to lower the number of students going to college.

Good solution.

Good thinking.

Let's dumb down the population.  [8|]

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I would love to see colleges that were completely publicly funded. On the other hand, I was able to get my AA in three years working part time and had no debt. I also had a 4.0 gpa

I was able to get my BA with 5k debt and I did not work at all. I graduated with a 3.96 GPA

I am currently in Grad school, and I only have to finish my thesis to get my MA. I will graduate with about 50k of debt... I have not worked much (although I did work through my first year). I have a 4.0 gpa. Cost of living was the reason I took out student loans (living in Southern California was EXPENSIVE), and there were no grants for living expenses.... my tuition is paid for because of my scholarship.

So, it is expensive to get an education, but you can do it without burying yourself, working limited hours, etc. It does take sacrifice, not everyone is willing to make that sacrifice... in some ways it feels good to have made sacrifices and overcome adversity and succeed anyways, if they took merit away as a criteria to do well, I wonder if that would add to laziness? In California you can get significant help to pay for college if you are a good student. It is how I received my BA with so little expense to myself.

That was very impressive and I just want to let you know I'm damn proud of you.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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I don't see anything in your statement about substantially reducing tuition rates, colleges guaranteeing high paying jobs after graduation, or allowing graduates to file bankruptcy on their student loans if they can't pay them. Making college harder without doing any of that only gives the rich who don't have to work during college to avoid mortgage sized debt unfair advantage.

If that's your take going in, you're going to be a poor, unsuccessful graduate.

The responsibility to learn is yours. Grade school is over, and it's time to learn to be a professional. High paying jobs go to highly skilled applicants entering markets that require those skills and need to pay that much. More likely, you're going to enter an industry at a moderate income to start. Lose the notion that people need to come take care of you, and learn to create for yourself. That's what will make you a valuable employee.

The college isn't loaning you the money. Payment is subject to the rules, including bankruptcy, as the rest of the financial world. Don't do it, though--you'll spend years coming back from it, and it will shut off several options from you.

As for college tuition, write your legislators, and when they promise you tax cuts, tell them you'd rather have tuition assistance.

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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I don't see anything in your statement about substantially reducing tuition rates, colleges guaranteeing high paying jobs after graduation, or allowing graduates to file bankruptcy on their student loans if they can't pay them. Making college harder without doing any of that only gives the rich who don't have to work during college to avoid mortgage sized debt unfair advantage.

If that's your take going in, you're going to be a poor, unsuccessful graduate.

The responsibility to learn is yours. Grade school is over, and it's time to learn to be a professional. High paying jobs go to highly skilled applicants entering markets that require those skills and need to pay that much. More likely, you're going to enter an industry at a moderate income to start. Lose the notion that people need to come take care of you, and learn to create for yourself. That's what will make you a valuable employee.

The college isn't loaning you the money. Payment is subject to the rules, including bankruptcy, as the rest of the financial world. Don't do it, though--you'll spend years coming back from it, and it will shut off several options from you.

As for college tuition, write your legislators, and when they promise you tax cuts, tell them you'd rather have tuition assistance.

Grade school is over? Kids in grade school don't have to work so they have more time to study. Kids in grade school don't have to worry about owing mortgage sized student loans if they don't work. Of course most college graduates enter an industry at a moderate income to start. That's why they need to work while they're in college so they won't have mortgage sized student loan debt to go with their low new graduate income. The higher tuition is, the more hours students have to work to avoid massive debt. The more hours students have to work, the less time they have to spend studying. That's why I get so mad when I hear people say college should be harder. Working students don't have time for that and they won't have until tuition is lowered so they can spend less time working and more time studying. Also, student loan debt is almost impossible to declare bankruptcy on. I'm surprised you don't know that.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Don't be so offended....

Hell, I took the remedial English class my first semester back in school, even though according to tests I could go into regular English. Why? Because I was sorta afraid after being out of school for 12 years. Personally, I do not think there is a problem with such classes. They can refresh older student's knowledge base (like me), and they can be helpful to people who come here that are ESL.

The thing that should be offensive to ALL of us is how many high schools graduate people who have only remedial skill sets, and how many universities accept them.

The year after I got a BA degree my university had to kick out 2000 students because they could not pass a basic writing or math class. I thought that was appalling.... anyone who goes to an accredited university has a stake in what they pass through to get the tuition fees. It denigrates the 4 year degree.

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Learning starts with listening. If you want to eternally justify where you are instead, you're going to stay where you are now

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

Or. . . we need to lower the number of students going to college.

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We also need to completely end the remedial classes. No more bonehead English or bonehead science or math. You should have learned these things in high school.

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ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Education critics say US colleges are much easier than colleges in some other countries....

Can you please provide a link?

Thank you.
Professor Sunshine

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Yes they can.

It's a lot easier to have a good life with college than without.  As long as that's true, colleges will see demand.

And I'm not sure that foreign colleges' students are able to attend without worrying about finances.  Could you provide a source for that?

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Union drivers earn $15-$25/hr. Assume low end to start, ending up eventually at $50,000 (for a 40 hour week).

The average college grad in 2010 started at $48,000.

Census figures show that college grads earn an average of $57500 a year, 82% more than the $31600 high school alumni make.