RE: So what's your plan?

RE: So what's your plan? (Full Version)

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Icarys -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 2:15:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery And I'm asking that the hand-wringing then be accompanied by a practical solution. Everyone so far has been great about that. Lots of other threads for more problem lists. "We should do this but we can't" isn't helpful. "Someone should do something" when there's no solution is pointless. We already have solutions to some of those. Some would say what you're doing now is pointless. I could give you a start then let you ask questions like you did Tazzy but to what end? I'm not working in a position that could make the changes needed in the timeline that's needed. All I am is one vote..together we are many..but we don't all agree. Reform: That's a pretty vast topic Music.

Musicmystery -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 2:17:36 PM)
So far, others have had good ideas and realistic proposals. Have a look. Add to them if you see more possibilities. Thanks. quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Certainly everyone agrees we face financial challenges, even as people disagree about the specifics and the causes. What I see is a lot of hand-wringing. Let's get out of that. What are your solutions? Please--I don't mean vague "do something about those sonnabitches" rants, nor do I mean things that just aren't feasible, whether physically or politically at this point. I mean from where we actually are, practical steps toward solutions. Things we can actually do, that will actually address the challenges. What's your plan? [Btw--if you feel it's hopeless, please don't post at all. Start a "why it's hopeless" thread. Thank you.] Let's get started.

Phoenixpower -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 2:31:31 PM)
I heard on another thread that there is gold which could be exchanged to reduced debts....but as this wasn't perceived as a good idea I better go into defence mechanism [sm=couch.gif]

Musicmystery -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 2:33:41 PM)
It's a suggested solution, and it would raise funds. Yes, the other thread outlines some consequences. But it counts. Thanks.

kdsub -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 3:00:25 PM)
I’ve always thought a nation…any nation… should strive for and promote self-sufficiency. If possible imports should be kept to a minimum and only necessities. I would like to see our government promote and encourage through tax deductions industry in the United States. I would also like to see tough tariffs on goods and services from companies that have laid off American workers and moved their companies out of the country. I would pass tough laws that require annually increasing percentage of alternative energy sources be used by our energy companies. I would promote through grants and tax deductions the development of new industry in the alternate energy source sector. I would require foreign owned companies that sell over a particular amount of goods or services in the US to produce those goods in America using American employees. It s a start. Butch

MrRodgers -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 3:17:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Please. The bitching is already well-established. What's your solution? The debate is feckless given that none of the real reform most of us would like to see will ever be enacted for the very reason it would step on politically powerful toes that are quite happy with the status quo. What we have been witness to is one of the greatest transfers of wealth from taxpayers to the investor class in history. All the while new investing and lending grind almost to a halt. All we see now from capital, is speculation. Capital now goes to hedge funds, oil and futures in general and blue chips. Many capitalist commentators have mentioned that it is time for the tax code to more favor manufacturing in order to create demand for hard (durable) goods. No income tax at all for the first 40K (instead of 36) and so on to spur demand.

MrRodgers -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 3:25:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou Bump medicare age up another 5 years. Remove or greatly restrict the prescription drug benefit. Bump Social Security up another 5 years. Remove all economic subsidies from Federal,State, and local governments authority. Amend the constitution if necessary. That would include a ban on special tax packages/grants/special "loans" etc... Cut military spending by 1/2 to 3/4's, at present most military spending is entirely unnecessary. Put a requirement on food stamps that they can only purchase generic boxed food, raw food, and a predefined list of meat products. The manufacturers can put a little icon on approved food. Thoroughly review people drawing SSI for permanent disability, raise the standard. Dismantle the Department of Education, return that function to the state. Make the playing field equal between private schools and public schools, with the goal of public school elimination. (People would get a voucher, and could select a school). Legalize Pot, Prostitution, Gambling. It's pure waste policing these activities like we do now. These should be allowed, however, I've no problem with regulating them, such as aids tests, or age requirements, etc... Welfare recipients no longer receive cash they receive a card, and that card can only be used to pay for certain items of necessity. Remove these nanny state laws, seat belt laws, mandatory insurance laws. No BAILOUTS EVER, if a financial mess happens again, the only option is seizure, or 100% failure with the preference towards the latter. In the case of seizure, the government is obligated to do a full and thorough investigation, bringing responsible parties to justice, and to sell the assets,when possible. Reform Patent and Copyright law, to bring it in line with modern reality, and that reality is copyright and patents should last for a shorter period of time, the idea being the creation and consumption cycle is much shorter than in the past. Remove all patrolling by the government for violations thereof, it is the owners responsibility to bring charges against the accused violator, and to sue. Ban all software "patents" this is an absurdity of the highest order. Property taxes should not be based on the value of the structures, but rather the "Value" the city has added to the property via access to roads (based on traffic count), police, fire department response potential. Make it explicitly illegal for any government to force any citizen to buy any product or service. Restructure the IRS, all taxes collected by whatever means can not require a filing from citizens, nor automatic withholding, nor personally identifiable disclosure from an employer. My father always said, if you are going to fantasize, might as well...go all of the way. You've come pretty close here. I am not concerned about the few I might not like because none of what you seek here will be done with the only exception being for the cuts will be for the younger set, not current govt. beneficiaries.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 3:56:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou Bump medicare age up another 5 years. Remove or greatly restrict the prescription drug benefit. Bump Social Security up another 5 years. Remove all economic subsidies from Federal,State, and local governments authority. Amend the constitution if necessary. That would include a ban on special tax packages/grants/special "loans" etc... Cut military spending by 1/2 to 3/4's, at present most military spending is entirely unnecessary. Put a requirement on food stamps that they can only purchase generic boxed food, raw food, and a predefined list of meat products. The manufacturers can put a little icon on approved food. Thoroughly review people drawing SSI for permanent disability, raise the standard. Dismantle the Department of Education, return that function to the state. Make the playing field equal between private schools and public schools, with the goal of public school elimination. (People would get a voucher, and could select a school). Legalize Pot, Prostitution, Gambling. It's pure waste policing these activities like we do now. These should be allowed, however, I've no problem with regulating them, such as aids tests, or age requirements, etc... Welfare recipients no longer receive cash they receive a card, and that card can only be used to pay for certain items of necessity. Remove these nanny state laws, seat belt laws, mandatory insurance laws. No BAILOUTS EVER, if a financial mess happens again, the only option is seizure, or 100% failure with the preference towards the latter. In the case of seizure, the government is obligated to do a full and thorough investigation, bringing responsible parties to justice, and to sell the assets,when possible. Reform Patent and Copyright law, to bring it in line with modern reality, and that reality is copyright and patents should last for a shorter period of time, the idea being the creation and consumption cycle is much shorter than in the past. Remove all patrolling by the government for violations thereof, it is the owners responsibility to bring charges against the accused violator, and to sue. Ban all software "patents" this is an absurdity of the highest order. Property taxes should not be based on the value of the structures, but rather the "Value" the city has added to the property via access to roads (based on traffic count), police, fire department response potential. Make it explicitly illegal for any government to force any citizen to buy any product or service. Restructure the IRS, all taxes collected by whatever means can not require a filing from citizens, nor automatic withholding, nor personally identifiable disclosure from an employer. My father always said, if you are going to fantasize, might as well...go all of the way. You've come pretty close here. I am not concerned about the few I might not like because none of what you seek here will be done with the only exception being for the cuts will be for the younger set, not current govt. beneficiaries. Oh wow, thanks for the enlightening comment, anything else.... I mean if I had realized what I think should happen, wasn't going to be instantly done, of course after your preliminary approval, I just would not have said anything. You know what I don't think anything will be done of consequence either (at least until the debt is way higher), that doesn't mean I don't think things should happen, and the whole point of the thread is to theorize solutions, so I did. So, tell me your master plan, as per the intent of the thread, so I can come back, and tell you it won't happen. Oh what fun....

rulemylife -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 4:22:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Given our form of government, and that I have no desire to take a cut in pay to run for office.... That's making the far-reaching assumption that anyone would elect you. But thanks for the bragging.

rulemylife -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 4:28:05 PM)
You've said it yourself numerous times. We have a bloated defense budget and we constantly involve ourselves in costly wars.

pahunkboy -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 4:34:26 PM)
1. start pulling corporate charters 2. shut the attorneys out of any decision making.

Musicmystery -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 9:16:11 PM)
quote: The debate is feckless given that none of the real reform most of us would like to see will ever be enacted for the very reason it would step on politically powerful toes that are quite happy with the status quo. Then that's the problem to address. What's your solution? Pretty "feckless" to continually whine about it too--a recipe for the status quo. We already have lots of reasons why it's all hopeless. Camp out there if you like--on another thread. Ideas for solutions--lay 'em out.

TheHeretic -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/20/2011 10:58:09 PM)
Well, Muse, my plan would involve some radical restructuring, creative refinancing, and a brutal fisting of the Baby-Boomers, on what they figure they are entitled to. Not likely to happen, but I might get back in here tomorrow and rant a bit. We are on a path to deal with the debt the easy way, no matter the press releases and inevitable protestations to the contrary. We are going to inflate our way out of it. It brings the national debt back into the realm of reason, and it takes care of homeowners with mortgages that are two and three times the value of the house. That's going to be a fisting for the boomers, too.

subfever -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/21/2011 12:19:55 AM)
quote: Certainly everyone agrees we face financial challenges, even as people disagree about the specifics and the causes. You're not starting high enough, as you seek to treat effects instead of cause. The problem with the financial system is the financial system itself. In simple terms, the problem is systemic. There was a time when a monetary system made good sense, back in the days when technology was limited and natural resources were deemed as unlimited. Times have changed. We need to adjust accordingly and evolve as a species, and we need to do this sooner than later. However, old ways die hard, and current powers want to remain so. Factor in lifelong conditioning of the masses to dwell inside the box plus the difficulty of letting go of our egos; and it becomes clear that we have an long uphill climb ahead of us before a sufficient number of people needed to make a difference are enlightened. It will be difficult, but not impossible. More people are catching on. The growth is slow, but as long as we have a free internet in which to communicate, a chance for real change still remains. If mankind survives to implement the needed changes, there will be a time in the future when our adherence to an outdated monetary system will be included in the absurdity of past beliefs such as a flat planet, bleeding people for fevers, etc. The current system is insane, and will be the death of us if we allow it to continue feeding upon us. We could do so much more for humanity and our environment, if we could only break free from our conditioning. We're still in the dark ages, but unfortunately, most of us don't realize it yet.

Musicmystery -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/21/2011 6:37:05 AM)
quote: We are on a path to deal with the debt the easy way So is your solution to accept this path? Just clarifying.

Musicmystery -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/21/2011 6:38:26 AM)
quote: The problem with the financial system is the financial system itself. In simple terms, the problem is systemic. There was a time when a monetary system made good sense So what's your solution? Why doesn't the monetary system make good sense, and what specifically do we do about it?

eihwaz -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/21/2011 6:48:51 AM)
~ A constitutional amendment to end corporate personhood ~ An antitrust regime which restricts corporate size to a scale at which capitalism flourishes. "Too big to fail is too big to exist." Any company exceeding a certain size would be nationalized and liquidated (sold off) into smaller parts. ~ With respect to the purpose of corporations, social good should be at least equal in importance to profit.

TheHeretic -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/21/2011 6:55:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: We are on a path to deal with the debt the easy way So is your solution to accept this path? Just clarifying. You might as well ask if my solution is to accept gravity, Muse. It is what it is. The coffee needs some time to work before I get around to what I think we ought to be doing.

Sanity -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/21/2011 7:49:01 AM)
So... relocate every fucking corporation to offshore destinations is a solution. [8\|] Then what would we do about the 80% unemployment crisis we would experience after we did that? quote: ORIGINAL: eihwaz ~ A constitutional amendment to end corporate personhood ~ An antitrust regime which restricts corporate size to a scale at which capitalism flourishes. "Too big to fail is too big to exist." Any company exceeding a certain size would be nationalized and liquidated (sold off) into smaller parts. ~ With respect to the purpose of corporations, social good should be at least equal in importance to profit.

mnottertail -> RE: So what's your plan? (5/21/2011 7:50:16 AM)
Same as we are doing now.

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