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subfever -> RE: So what's your plan? (6/4/2011 7:47:55 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
sub, these are off-topic, as they speak not to plans to resolve the matter, but rather debates about the monetary system, one topic I'm weary of discussing, because I just keep explaining the same things endlessly while most simply disregard the explanations (vs. disputing them). But since this is the first time you've asked me, here, and I'll keep it brief.
The first question you can Google easily yourself. There's roughly $900 billion in currency, $1 trillion in money (you can parse out M1, M2, M3 and M4 yourself if you like--it won't change the point here), and $14 trillion in debt. We've also $15 trillion in GDP annually--1/5 of the world's economy.
If you mean the "monetary-economic" system, then you're wrong. You're talking about capitalism and how it distributes resources. You're not speaking of monetary issues at all, except incidentally--i.e., you're confusing the measure with the substance.
And of course money is created as debt--if you truly mean money creation through fractional banking, which you mention nowhere else. If you're thinking that we print money and that's money creation, you're off base (other than the Fed purchasing Treasury securities, which is only a small part of increasing the money supply).
As for an "invalid" money supply, that just makes no sense. What's "invalid" about it? It serves as a unit of accounting, medium of exchange, and store of value. That's its job. The Fed ensures there's enough money supply to facilitate commerce, but not too much (which would be absorbed as inflation).
Your Great Depression question is simple--yes, all the resources are still there, but they aren't circulating. That's what an economy is. If tomorrow, we all decided we have what we need and stopped producing and selling, we'd all have the same stuff, but the economy would be toast.
What I'm saying is that while I'm curious about your resource-based economy idea, instead of uncovering a practical plan, there appears, unless I'm misunderstanding you, to be some fundamental misunderstandings about the economy and how it functions.
If you can bring this around to some practical solutions/plans for the current situation, that would be great.
The point I was leading to with the money supply, is how it relates to the total debt. Since the debt well exceeds the money supply, and since money is also created as debt; how can the debt possibly be paid off?
What is invalid about the monetary system is its complete decoupling from the life sequence of value. Take my Great Depression point for example, when the resources, willing and able workers, and factories all still existed... but were rendered useless by the invalid nature of the monetary system. You claim that money does exactly what it is supposed to do. Well then, what specifically went wrong there?
I have no practical solutions for the current situation, other than to replace the monetary-economic paradigm with a resource-based economy. However, such change would be a vast departure from this system we all submit to... and most worship. Consequently, most people are initially unable to even conceive a world without money, or handle emotional fears related to the direct self-questioning of their own identities, egos, and potential loss of their perceived advantages over others. This being the case, it then stands to reason that they would also be unable to intellectually support such a concept. After all, one needs to have their emotions in check, before they can move forward intellectually.
A quick look around me makes it clear that most people still adhere to the absurd notion that all we need to do is get the right guys in office and either tweak-left or tweak-right (depending upon their political persuasion). They still don’t understand that the problem is systemic. Until we raise the collective consciousness of the masses beyond this absurdity, discussions about getting from Point A to Point B will be nothing more than another exercise in futility… like most of the left vs right threads we see here and on other forums.
This thread has been somewhat of a departure from the futility norm, thanks to your careful and respectful moderation. You’ve also exhibited more patience than what we typically see around here. Consequently, I don't wish to derail your thread by encouraging discussion of whether or not the problem itself is systemic, if you prefer to restrict this thread to ideas about how to fix a system I see as utterly corrupt and obsolete. This doesn't mean that we couldn't discuss it elsewhere, however.
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