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Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 7:20:36 AM

cpK69

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To avoid hijacking...

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

Emotions are feelings; they are how we compare our experiences to ourselves. Whereas, to feel, is simply to experience. To feel beyond emotion, is to experience without the comparison.

Kim

Ummm no. Emotions are not how we compare our experience to ourselves, (where ever did you get that from?) that would be our brain. And to feel is not to simply experience without comparison, it is to feel. Feelings/emotions are emotions/feelings, no need for words or comparisons.

While I’m not overly confident in my choice of wording, I’m certain of my assessment of the situation; however, I’m willing to reassess for the sake of discussion and accuracy.

So, let’s see if we can ascertain where, exactly, I might be mistaken, by starting with a few questions.

Do you agree…

Emotions are internal (originate from within)?

Emotions derive from our perception of an experience (physical or mental)?

Our perception is relative to ourselves?

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

Post #: 1

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 7:50:05 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Hmmmmmm.....

quote:

Emotions are internal (originate from within)?

Emotions derive from our perception of an experience (physical or mental)?

Our perception is relative to ourselves?

Are these things supposed to be mutually exclusive?

Emotions are all of these things, yes? I mean I can experience something and my interpretation of what I am experiencing will tell me what response I should have. Some people go on a rollercoaster and feel exhilarated, some are terrified... it is their perceptions that cause the differing reactions. From that viewpoint I suppose emotions are internal...

At the same time we take cues from each other about how we should feel. If we care for someone and they are not well, we can begin to exhibit symptoms of the same ailments. We can become depressed and anxious if we are in an environment where others are. On the one hand, our experience comes from within, on the other hand our environment can be key to setting up those emotional states...

It is both, really, both internal and external.... the two are not mutually exclusive.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to cpK69)

Post #: 2

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 8:56:00 AM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Are these things supposed to be mutually exclusive?

Emotions are all of these things, yes? I mean I can experience something and my interpretation of what I am experiencing will tell me what response I should have. Some people go on a rollercoaster and feel exhilarated, some are terrified... it is their perceptions that cause the differing reactions. From that viewpoint I suppose emotions are internal...

At the same time we take cues from each other about how we should feel. If we care for someone and they are not well, we can begin to exhibit symptoms of the same ailments. We can become depressed and anxious if we are in an environment where others are. On the one hand, our experience comes from within, on the other hand our environment can be key to setting up those emotional states...

It is both, really, both internal and external.... the two are not mutually exclusive.

I believe this is how we are accustomed to responding, but think that it is a misinterpretation on our part for doing so. Another’s feelings can clue us in to how we should respond to that person, but they can’t tell us anything about how we should feel. How we will feel depends on how well we are able to respond to the other person’s feelings.

For instance, I might be sad when a friend is sad, but it is not their sadness that saddens me, but my inability to help them feel better. If I could help them, there would be no reason for either of us to be sad; right?

I think this is more about suggestive thinking… If I think about being sick enough, I become sick. My oldest son’s girlfriend is pregnant; he is convinced he is feeling sympathy pains. I think if he is not actually sick, what he is experiencing is due to his belief that he is pregnant; not physically, of course, but in his mind ‘he is going to have a baby!’ (or something like that)

As for environment, pretty much the same thing as people; when we are able to cope, there is no affect, just response.

So, I’m still thinking they are only internal.

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 3

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 9:07:20 AM

juliaoceania

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Human beings depend on other human beings. Without other human beings we become mentally unstable. It is why even the most dysfunctional of human beings will fear solitary confinement.

In experiments with babies, 50 percent will die if they are not held by other human beings.

We are so influenced by the stimulation of our environment that it impacts our health, emotional well being (which are the same thing in my mind), and whether or not we heal. To try to separate the human from the stimuli is really not a productive way of looking at the whole person. Of course I am influenced by my environment. In what ways I am influenced are individual, but everyone is influenced in some way or another by what they are experiencing.

So what you are arguing is a bit of the "chicken and the egg" to me, which came first, etc.... I am an extremely empathetic person, so much so that I often need to get away from others because they rub off on me. It isn't that I am anti-social, it is that the energy others puts off has way too much influence on me. Someone else may not be that influenced by other people... but that does not make either experience invalid.

We have these arguments all the time with science, you know, causation is one of the hardest things to prove... mainly because individuals differ so vastly. For example, cigarettes can cause cancer. They will not necessarily cause cancer in everyone, but it is a high enough percentage of people that will contract lung cancer that we are warned about it. Now, these people who get cancer often have a genetic predisposition to getting cancer, but they would never have gotten it unless they picked up the cigarettes. It seems a pretty useless endeavor to separate whether or not someone got it because of genetic predisposition... the best thing is not to smoke. The same is true for being around a bunch of depressing crap. It might not cause you to become depressed, but the chances are you will be negatively impacted by a bunch of depressing crap...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to cpK69)

Post #: 4

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 9:19:25 AM

TreasureKY

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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

In experiments with babies, 50 percent will die if they are not held by other human beings.

Oh my god. Please provide a reference to who is responsible for experiments on babies that were allowed to die in this manner.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 5

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 9:30:46 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

In experiments with babies, 50 percent will die if they are not held by other human beings.

Oh my god. Please provide a reference to who is responsible for experiments on babies that were allowed to die in this manner.

Perhaps experiment is a faulty word, because there was no control group... But there have been observations of the impacts of babies without anyone to give them care, which is failure to thrive, social retardation, and even death

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternal_deprivation#Influence_on_institutionalised_care

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 6

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 10:31:16 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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Not experiments. Romanian orphanages. One in particular where the few staff members had all they could do to feed and wash the babies. One thrived while all the rest did not. They discovered that the lady who came in at night to clean held this child, as he bore a strong resemblance to her grandchild as a baby.

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Post #: 7

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 10:38:46 AM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Well, my point is that we human beings are very sensitive to our environments. Sure, it is individual as to the emotional states human beings experience internally, but these emotional states are influenced and produced by stimuli.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 8

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 10:49:38 AM

FullCircle

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Doesn't sound very scientific.

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(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 9

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 11:13:40 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

To avoid hijacking...

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

Emotions are feelings; they are how we compare our experiences to ourselves. Whereas, to feel, is simply to experience. To feel beyond emotion, is to experience without the comparison.

Kim

Ummm no. Emotions are not how we compare our experience to ourselves, (where ever did you get that from?) that would be our brain. And to feel is not to simply experience without comparison, it is to feel. Feelings/emotions are emotions/feelings, no need for words or comparisons.

While I’m not overly confident in my choice of wording, I’m certain of my assessment of the situation; however, I’m willing to reassess for the sake of discussion and accuracy.

So, let’s see if we can ascertain where, exactly, I might be mistaken, by starting with a few questions.

Do you agree…

Emotions are internal (originate from within)?

Emotions derive from our perception of an experience (physical or mental)?

Our perception is relative to ourselves?

Kim

To ME, emotions are almost entirely ego driven, therefor internally driven. And yes, all perceptions are relative to ourselves, our ego. We've programmed our own ego, our experiences, how we dealt with them, how we've reacted to external stimuli and internalized it or not. The delightful part of that is that we can reprogramme also........if we make the effort.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to cpK69)

Post #: 10

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 3:43:14 PM

calamitysandra

Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

In experiments with babies, 50 percent will die if they are not held by other human beings.

Oh my god. Please provide a reference to who is responsible for experiments on babies that were allowed to die in this manner.

There is anecdotal evidence for an experiment along those lines conducted upon request of Friedrich II von Hohenstaufen (Stupor Mundi, Frederick II, Holy Poman Emperor) who lived 1194-1250. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor
His reason was (if this is true) that he wanted to know what the original language of man was, and was trying to find out by raising babies without more than the barest necessary human contact.

< Message edited by calamitysandra -- 5/22/2011 3:44:00 PM >

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"Whenever people are laughing, they are generally not killing one another"
Alan Alda

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 11

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 4:09:40 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I remember some sort of observation, some sort of experiment, or something being talked about in my psych 101 class... that has been a long time ago

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to calamitysandra)

Post #: 12

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 6:12:42 PM

CreepyStalker

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Joined: 2/12/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
In experiments with babies, 50 percent will die if they are not held by other human beings.

LOL. Massive LOL.

:-D

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 13

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/22/2011 7:29:56 PM

gungadin09

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Joined: 3/19/2010
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i use the words feeling and emotion interchangeably. i would guess that feelings/emotions are an interaction of sensory information and the way the brain judges the information, in the same way the brain "hears" the sounds that make up language differently, depending on whether a person grew up speaking that language or not.

In general, the brain takes in new information tries to find a pattern or compare it to something it already understands. So the brain perceives an emotion and then tries to judge it by comparing it to some sort of standard, like this is what "sad" feels like, and this is what "happy" feels like, etc. Thus the brain searches for the best label or description for what's happening, based on what's come before.

i'm not sure it's possible to consciously separate the pure physical sensation itself from the judgement the brain imposes on it, no more than i can be sure when i look at the color red that i'm seeing the same thing that you are (even if our eyes were identical). i think the mind and the body are much more intertwined than people think.

Not sure if i really understood the question, but that's my take on the role the mind plays in experiencing emotion.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 5/22/2011 7:31:59 PM >

(in reply to cpK69)

Post #: 14

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/29/2011 3:53:12 PM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Human beings depend on other human beings. Without other human beings we become mentally unstable. It is why even the most dysfunctional of human beings will fear solitary confinement.

I understand the need for companionship, and that such can come in many forms; humans are not always the most beneficial, nor are they always the most preferred.

It seems likely a fear of solitary confinement would have more to do the environment itself, then the lack of human interaction; or are you not referring to being locked-up somewhere?

quote:

We are so influenced by the stimulation of our environment that it impacts our health, emotional well being (which are the same thing in my mind), and whether or not we heal. To try to separate the human from the stimuli is really not a productive way of looking at the whole person. Of course I am influenced by my environment. In what ways I am influenced are individual, but everyone is influenced in some way or another by what they are experiencing.

So what you are arguing is a bit of the "chicken and the egg" to me, which came first, etc.... I am an extremely empathetic person, so much so that I often need to get away from others because they rub off on me. It isn't that I am anti-social, it is that the energy others puts off has way too much influence on me. Someone else may not be that influenced by other people... but that does not make either experience invalid.

I can agree that environmental factors have the potential to stimulate us to the point that our health, emotional well-being, and ability to heal are affected. However, what you are suggesting seems to imply, every aspect of a person’s environment does these things, and all the time. I would think that kind of sensual input would create an overload of the senses, causing great mental instability.

We are not only able to pick and choose what we wish to focus on, but also the 'angle' in which we wish to view the object(s) of our attention. We cannot view the world through a perspective of the past, and hope to be objective. If we are not able to be objective, we are unlikely to move forward.

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 15

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/29/2011 4:16:24 PM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

To ME, emotions are almost entirely ego driven, therefor internally driven. And yes, all perceptions are relative to ourselves, our ego. We've programmed our own ego, our experiences, how we dealt with them, how we've reacted to external stimuli and internalized it or not. The delightful part of that is that we can reprogramme also........if we make the effort.

Where else do you see them deriving from, other than ego?

I agree that in being programmed, we are responsible for pushing the ‘enter’ button, but I’m not certain the writing of programs is all us. When we are young, we are reliant on those we see as authority to be honest with us, but part of being honest, is to admit we not always honest with ourselves; not a lot of people are able, or willing, to do that.

I also agree that we can reprogram, or perhaps even better, deprogram.

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 16

RE: Emotions (in response to heartcream) - 5/30/2011 12:22:56 PM

cpK69

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Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

i use the words feeling and emotion interchangeably.

I think the easiest way to describe the difference between sensory information and emotions, is that one tells us what something feels, looks, smells, tastes, sounds like, and the other tells us how we feel about that information.

quote:

In general, the brain takes in new information tries to find a pattern or compare it to something it already understands.

Let’s say new information is introduced, and the brain is unable to compare it to something it already understands. What happens? Is there an auto-emotion for that?

quote:

i'm not sure it's possible to consciously separate the pure physical sensation itself from the judgement the brain imposes on it

I suspect, if it were not possible, my history with men, would make my being involved in a D/s relationship improbable, if not impossible.

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 17

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