Holding Back

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MistressK2011 -> Holding Back (5/23/2011 6:15:13 PM)
I tend to hold back some of my dominant tendencies when getting to know a potential sub/slave. For instance, I don't follow protocols, will ask their opinions, let them make choices, agree with their ideas (if I really do, and not if I don't). This would be my pre-and-first-coffee-meeting tactic. Basically, I've been screening this way by letting them talk, and show me themselves on their own initiative. I treat it like a vanilla 'getting to know you' thing, except if it comes to bdsm preferences. It's akin to giving a person enough rope, and seeing if they hang themselves. Many do, but I wonder if I've missed some chances by (deliberately) holding back dominance? I know exactly who I am, what I want, and what I'll tolerate, but I let most things slide in the early stages. I have limits, and boundaries, and I'll tell anyone if they cross those, but it's rare anyone does, so they may not see obvious dominance at work until after the first coffee meeting. I want to know, from subs and slaves (duh!) if this tactic is a bit too laid back for most of you? Do you prefer some sort of dominance from the beginning, or only after you know the person and have met for the first time? - K

juliaoceania -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 6:31:55 PM)
This maybe partially a gender thing, I will not go out with someone who would expect me to follow a protocol, wasn't interested in my ideas (and that is throughout the relationship), etc etc etc... If someone wants to rush I think they are after fantasy, not a relationship... not that there is anything wrong with that

sunshinemiss -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 6:34:23 PM)
There have been any number of discussions on the "kneel bitch" phenomenon. Rarely does it work for the people on the boards here. best, sunshine

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 6:38:22 PM)
i think there's a difference between protocol and dominance. to me, when someone shows dominance, it isn't about making me follow rules right off the bat, it's more to do with his personality and character traits, how he carries himself, and whatever energy i feel from him. (energy being a totally subjective ephemeral thing, it's hard to put a finger on that. =p) the type of Dominants that i respond to are naturally just that way, but they are confident enough to not feel like they have to say "kneel bitch" from minute one. they can have vanilla conversations without feeling like it diminishes them because it's just another facet of who they are. they're at ease, and they're themselves. so for me, THAT'S what i like to see on a coffee date. if someone tries to enforce protocol when there's literally no reason for me to even BEGIN to follow it, that comes across as trying too hard, and turns me off.

coookie -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 6:43:31 PM)
If you are "letting things slide" that normally you would not then i don't think you are being honest to them. I personally have little interest in protocol so if i were to meet you and you showed no signs of such and then one day wanted me to follow a set protocol i would think "what the hell is going on here?". Generally speaking i think that you should just be you.

MistressK2011 -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 6:43:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep i think there's a difference between protocol and dominance. to me, when someone shows dominance, it isn't about making me follow rules right off the bat, it's more to do with his personality and character traits, how he carries himself, and whatever energy i feel from him. (energy being a totally subjective ephemeral thing, it's hard to put a finger on that. =p) the type of Dominants that i respond to are naturally just that way, but they are confident enough to not feel like they have to say "kneel bitch" from minute one. they can have vanilla conversations without feeling like it diminishes them because it's just another facet of who they are. they're at ease, and they're themselves. so for me, THAT'S what i like to see on a coffee date. if someone tries to enforce protocol when there's literally no reason for me to even BEGIN to follow it, that comes across as trying too hard, and turns me off. Makes a lot of good sense to me. Perhaps they want a more clear sense of my rules and boundaries? The thing is, I tend to not say anything unless something bothers me. Not much bothers me, really. I tend to be more tolerant of things with a new person than I would ever be with someone else. Could this be where I am going wrong? Should I say things such as, "You may call me x day at z time" or whatever instead of being open to recieve calls if I'm around when they call? I think perhaps I'm leaving it too loose. Hoping to find a happy medium. - K

MistressK2011 -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 6:46:41 PM)
Right. I think the word 'protocol' is probably wrong here. I do strive to be myself, sometimes I over-extend myself. It could be that this was a past problem, I had a couple of months where I wasn't really looking, because I was mentally and physically exhausted. Maybe the better approach is when I am well rested and mentally 'alert' is when I have dealings with them, and not just 'whenever I'm home'. - K

aromanholiday -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 6:51:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressK2011 I want to know, from subs and slaves (duh!) if this tactic is a bit too laid back for most of you? Do you prefer some sort of dominance from the beginning, or only after you know the person and have met for the first time? - K What I like is the approach you've described combined with hints that there is far more to you than meets the eye and that I will be getting to know about those depths, if you decide I am worthy. This gives me hope, as a submissive--something to wait for, and to strive for. It puts me in the position of having to prove my worth to you if I want to see more of what you intriguingly hint at--and that is a good position for a submissive to be in. Sometimes if a dominant comes off as too asexual (by that I mean bland/not interested in control), I get discouraged: I imagine that they lack passion or creative imagination. That may not be the case at all, so by giving out little hints, showing tiny flashes of your actual personality, maybe making small, occasional remarks about your own preferences, you let them know there is a dark beast alive and well in you. This brings out a desire in some submissives to court you and to please you. This is a female response, so take it with a grain of salt if your tastes run to men. I don't know if submissive males feel the same way.

falccon -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 7:06:29 PM)
i believe it's good strategy for a woman and man to get to know each other in a vanilla setting without the bdsm. there will be plenty of time for the dominance part to come into play later. imho.of course, respect is understood on both parties.

NuevaVida -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 7:14:03 PM)
He and I both took things very slowly. It wasn't a matter of being "dishonest" with each other - it just wasn't appropriate to be laying down rules and following them while we were getting to know each other. We both felt that way, and just let the M/s evolve naturally (and slowly). If he were to set up dates/times for me to call and I couldn't call outside of those, I'd think he was married. I just don't see the need to set up rules and protocols for the sake of setting up rules and protocols. If it's not an important requirement for you, then it just feels unnatural to me. Jumping through hoops for someone I'm only beginning to know would have me jumping my way out of his line of sight. It's not something I would respond to. I have in the past, but many of my attitudes changed over time, so it wouldn't work for me now.

sirssubk2008 -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 7:42:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressK2011 I tend to hold back some of my dominant tendencies when getting to know a potential sub/slave. For instance, I don't follow protocols, will ask their opinions, let them make choices, agree with their ideas (if I really do, and not if I don't). This would be my pre-and-first-coffee-meeting tactic. Basically, I've been screening this way by letting them talk, and show me themselves on their own initiative. I treat it like a vanilla 'getting to know you' thing, except if it comes to bdsm preferences. It's akin to giving a person enough rope, and seeing if they hang themselves. Many do, but I wonder if I've missed some chances by (deliberately) holding back dominance? I know exactly who I am, what I want, and what I'll tolerate, but I let most things slide in the early stages.I have limits, and boundaries, and I'll tell anyone if they cross those, but it's rare anyone does, so they may not see obvious dominance at work until after the first coffee meeting. I want to know, from subs and slaves (duh!) if this tactic is a bit too laid back for most of you? Do you prefer some sort of dominance from the beginning, or only after you know the person and have met for the first time? - K What kinds of things are you letting slide? If you feel this may be causing issues then maybe instead of letting it slide completely, you could say something along the lines of "We are getting to know each other right now, and so I overlook certain behaviors, however if things progress certain things will not be acceptable" I think this accomplish's a couple of things... The obvious of course, but also it allows room for better communication because it leaves an opening for them to ask questions.

coookie -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 9:13:55 PM)
quote: What kinds of things are you letting slide? If you feel this may be causing issues then maybe instead of letting it slide completely, you could say something along the lines of "We are getting to know each other right now, and so I overlook certain behaviors, however if things progress certain things will not be acceptable" I think this accomplish's a couple of things... The obvious of course, but also it allows room for better communication because it leaves an opening for them to ask questions. Great advice Ya i often get hung up on the word protocols because i see them as leading to quite a rigid existence. It is possibly a skewed perception but it is all that i have to go on at this time.

MistressK2011 -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 9:19:02 PM)
Too much sense is made of all this. I like to self-exam once in a while, make sure what I think is working actually is. The gist of what I'm getting is that my approach works for ME, so I shouldn't worry too much about refining it. For me 'holding back' could be equated with social politeness in a lot of cases. There are things that are quite honest, but too blunt and it's hard for me to come up with anything but exactly what's on my mind. Sometimes a person just needs to be told, it's ok to speak your mind, in a world where few people seem to anymore. - K

coookie -> RE: Holding Back (5/23/2011 9:58:03 PM)
quote: it's ok to speak your mind, in a world where few people seem to anymore. lol there ya go =)

DesFIP -> RE: Holding Back (5/24/2011 5:46:40 AM)
If you aren't yet in a relationship with them, you don't have the right to attempt to dominate them. Now I like some low key dominance shown that is coupled with some flexibility. Such as "Saturday at 7, let's go to the new seafood place. Does that work for you?". This shows that he can make a decision and take the lead while understanding that she may have a conflict timewise or be allergic to seafood.

Kana -> RE: Holding Back (5/24/2011 6:21:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressK2011 I tend to hold back some of my dominant tendencies when getting to know a potential sub/slave. For instance, I don't follow protocols, will ask their opinions, let them make choices, agree with their ideas (if I really do, and not if I don't). This would be my pre-and-first-coffee-meeting tactic. Basically, I've been screening this way by letting them talk, and show me themselves on their own initiative. I treat it like a vanilla 'getting to know you' thing, except if it comes to bdsm preferences. It's akin to giving a person enough rope, and seeing if they hang themselves. Many do, but I wonder if I've missed some chances by (deliberately) holding back dominance? I know exactly who I am, what I want, and what I'll tolerate, but I let most things slide in the early stages. I have limits, and boundaries, and I'll tell anyone if they cross those, but it's rare anyone does, so they may not see obvious dominance at work until after the first coffee meeting. I want to know, from subs and slaves (duh!) if this tactic is a bit too laid back for most of you? Do you prefer some sort of dominance from the beginning, or only after you know the person and have met for the first time? - K I'm just me. I don't hold back tendencies (Somehow that feels dishonest, like she's dating my Sales Rep, not me). I let people know exactly what they are getting into w/ me up front, that way she can't cry foul later (Plus, it'll be rubbed in her face for years to come-you asked to meet me, you begged to fuck, etc...) And actually, the older I got, the less I let slide. Life is short. I don't have time to fool around. When I see red flags I explore them, and often just walk instead of throwing time and effort into something that will almost assuredly be a failed interaction. I've found that doing so is often the kinder act, for both me and her. As for the rest, why ask us? Do what works for you, what is you, don't worry about irrelevant stuff like other peoples protocols and just dig deep into your relationships.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Holding Back (5/24/2011 6:53:59 AM)
As I have mentioned before, it is my opinion that there are, as a general rule, some huge differences between male and female subs. Male subs tend to be more porn oriented, more "do me" driven, more desperate to have their kink needs fulfilled. Very often they start out calling you Mistress or Maam in an attempt to demonstrate how sub they are. Often they assume someone who doesn't dominant them from the very first interaction is not dominant enough for them, b/c they have encountered so many fake dommes, really they are just looking for the shoe to drop. In order to deal with male subs, you have to know how to cut through all that BS. The best way I know of doing this is to establish firm guidelines in terms of "we will interact on a friendship getting to know each other only basis, until such times as we mutually determine we want to explore a D/s relationship. This could take weeks, or months, depending on how close we are and how often we get to meet and how much time we have available to get to know each other." I agree with this statement from aromanholiday: What I like is the approach you've described combined with hints that there is far more to you than meets the eye and that I will be getting to know about those depths, if you decide I am worthy. This gives me hope, as a submissive--something to wait for, and to strive for. It puts me in the position of having to prove my worth to you if I want to see more of what you intriguingly hint at--and that is a good position for a submissive to be in. A hint of your dominance here and there is most welcome, but until you establish a certain core foundation of trust, more than that is, in my opinion, not appropriate. Even then I expect far more testing from a male sub. Not so much with disobedience, but with manipulative behavior designed to determine if the dominant is really the one in control. And yes I know fem subs do this too, I just think it's far more prevalent in male subs (unless they are the uber groveling type who will submit to anyone and everyone).

MistressK2011 -> RE: Holding Back (5/24/2011 9:41:36 AM)
Excellent points, all. Thank you! (Mental gerbil wheel happily spinning) - K

Lockit -> RE: Holding Back (5/24/2011 9:46:51 AM)
ChatteParfaitt [sm=yourock.gif] GREAT Post!

MistressK2011 -> RE: Holding Back (5/24/2011 10:11:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit ChatteParfaitt [sm=yourock.gif] GREAT Post! They like me! They really really like me! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bzU77zGDlI ;-) - K

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