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about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 4:24:34 PM

wouldlike2

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline

hello to A/all...

myself i was just wondering about and curiuos to hear some responses and thuoghts as well about the theme of jeaulousy.
so often when reading about D/s - M/s, BDSM i do find the expression jealousy simple is not be involved in that lifestyle.
i am really asking myself - just cause You in the lifestyle it does not exist?
and even when jealousy is popping up how Y/you would handle it?

.. and by the way - no i do not think just cause someone shows jeaulousy it does mean H/he - S/she has a lack of self-esteem, is weak, messed up .... often people tend to say then - smile -

thanks a lot for all the responses so far...

pet

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Post #: 1

RE: about jealousy.. - 5/12/2006 4:48:41 PM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
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Hello wouldlike2,

I think that it is important to remember that jealousy is just as valid as any other emotion. Not all emotions are pleasant, either to deal with or to experience, but one is no more or less legitimate than another. Be very wary of those, especially those whom you would consider surrender to, who do not deal with, but instead, just dismiss an emotion within you. It is a sure fire path to something breaking down somewhere.

To simply say.. what you are feeling is not allowed and not 'right' will not take care of either the problem (that is causing a response that is just a completely natural and organic response within you.. an emotion), nor will it make the emotion go away.

If you are in a relationship with someone and those feelings come up, it is not something you can shove off on just one participant of the relationship to deal with.. you are now in a partnership where that sort of behavior will not work, especially in a D/s dynamic.

If left to her own emotions and fears, there is very little likelihood of the 'jealous submissive' to find her way out of that horrible state of thoughts and feelings on her own. So your statement of hearing that is is 'simply not involved' in this lifestyle makes me very uncomfortable. You can not disallow things that are a normal part of any functioning human being (even if they do not bring you pleasure), and certainly you can not make them magically disappear just by making a statement like.. "Your feelings are not allowed to be in existence". (I do realize that you were just stating what you heard, not saying that is a truism in your own thought process)

Good luck in your question. I hope it gets a lot of thoughtful answers.

< Message edited by puella -- 5/12/2006 4:49:03 PM >

(in reply to wouldlike2)

Post #: 2

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 4:50:36 PM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

Jealousy stems from insecurities and a lack of trust. I don't believe that just because someone is involved in this "lifestyle" that jealousy some how just disappears, I've seen way to many examples of it to believe that.

I will tell you that in Our home... there is no jealousy. It's a useless and damaging emotion. How did we banish it? We built our relationship based on trust, honesty, respect and communication.

I know that a lot of people say that jealousy has it's place, that in some ways it's a good thing....

Jealous: 1 a: intolerant of rivalry or unfaithfullness b:disposed to suspect rivalry or unfaithfulness. 2: hostile toward a rival or one believed to enjoy an advantage. 3: Vigilant in guarding a possession

Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary

Eleventh Edition Copyright 2003

Of those definitions I would have to say that "vigilant in guarding possessions" would be the only one that could, (depending on whether or not one's fort were under attack), be a good thing.

I think the difference between being jealous and not being jealous would be this:

Not jealous... if you love something set it free, if it comes back it's yours, if it doesn't it never was yours...

Jealous... if you love something set it free, if it comes back it's yours, if it doesn't, hunt it down and kill it.

Jewel

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Post #: 3

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 4:59:43 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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If someone is jealous it is because they have mental issues. That is all there is to it. This is a well documented fact and can be easily researched on Google by doing a search for "what causes jealousy?"

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Post #: 4

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 5:20:14 PM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
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I think people are jealous because they have simply not learned that love is an amazing substance. The more of it you give away, the more of it you share, the more you have.

Read my signature line;

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Post #: 5

RE: about jealousy.. - 5/12/2006 5:28:01 PM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

If someone is jealous it is because they have mental issues. That is all there is to it. This is a well documented fact and can be easily researched on Google by doing a search for "what causes jealousy?"

Hmm well, I certainly can not agree with what you say.. you can google just about any information and come up with unsubstantiated claims by self proclaimed experts... just look at some of the expert advice you will find from Ann Coulter..

If you look under legitimate psychological journals however you will find just the opposite is being said...

"And strong jealous reactions... may even be seen as healthy expressions of truly hurt feelings." Psychology Today... I will provide the link to the article which did a scientific research study into jealousy and envy.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1175/is_v19/ai_3914457

Now, searching for something similar to what you stated... implying that jealousy was not an emotion but a psychological defect of some sort, or a sociopathic or psychotic reaction... I came up with no legitimate medical documentation. I did find a study that said that in adolescent relationships, insecurity often manifests itself in the form of jealousy:

"For years, researchers have stressed the benefits to children of close friendships, but there also can be a dark-side to friendships," says principal investigator Jeffrey G. Parker, PhD, an associate psychology professor at Pennsylvania State University. "Often with intimacy comes vulnerability. Our work shows that there is a great deal of negative behavior and aggression connected with jealousy. For some children, there may be a price to intimacy."

http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb05/jealousy.html

Any emotion, if not dealt with properly or healthfully, can produce sociopath behavior. Emotion is neither psychotic or sociopath. The choices an individual makes and the behaviors in dealing with that emotion can be.

< Message edited by puella -- 5/12/2006 5:45:37 PM >

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 6

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 5:30:26 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

If someone is jealous it is because they have mental issues. That is all there is to it. This is a well documented fact and can be easily researched on Google by doing a search for "what causes jealousy?"

....Ahhh but you do realize that many "vanilla" consider those involved in BDSM also have mental issues!..So this interpretation does not wash with me...it may be googled ..but just because it is printed, does this then make it an absolute truth?...NO.....be well...Tempting

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 7

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 5:41:21 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

If someone is jealous it is because they have mental issues. That is all there is to it. This is a well documented fact and can be easily researched on Google by doing a search for "what causes jealousy?"

I really don't buy this. It's almost like saying if people think they have mental issues. Jealousy is a natural emotion and nothing to do with 'issues'.

I have to admit I have been jealous at times but I'm never jealous of people I don't care about. If I had a sub I didn't feel at least a little possessive about, she would be merely a play thing and who plays with her next wouldn't be an issue. Or would those people who dismiss jealousy as a mental issue guard their sub like a piece of property and envious of someone else using their property or are they communists and see their sub as communual?

Jealousy can be very destructive but like many emotions it also has a positive counterpart.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 8

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 5:57:15 PM

Phoenixandnika

Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline

We all have human emotions, even jealousy and envy. I doubt that any Master,slave, Dominate, submissive, or person in general can honestly say that they have NEVER felt these emotions. Slaves and submissives are told that these emotions are unbecoming. However, here and now I sit wondering would it be better that a slave / submissive keeps her feelings, her emotions secret from her Owner? After all it is also said that an owner wants to known the most intimate detail to the most mundane about his or her slave/submissive. So would this not be of importance to share?

When I look back on the times when these emotions came into play, I have to wonder where my focus was. Was my focus on my Owner or myself?

In all truth my focus was on MY own fears and MY insecurites. It was focused on the past not the here and now, not my Master, not pleasing him.

For me once I stop playing the what-if game and focus on pleasing my him and serving him as he wishes, yes at times that means not taking it personally when / if he takes another submissive / slave, speaks with an ex, or simply shows interests in another woman in general. I will feel emotions, because I am human but even then I must remember he is master and I am his slave, I am to serve, to be pleasing, and obey him in all things even the things that may sting a bit.

Blessed Be,
Nika

< Message edited by Phoenixandnika -- 5/12/2006 6:05:13 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 6:01:04 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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Doms dismiss jealousy as a sign of weakness but dismissing it, is a sign of weakness in itself.

(in reply to Phoenixandnika)

Post #: 10

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 6:04:22 PM

Phoenixandnika

Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
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I agree, however I also think simply dismissing any emotion is a sign of weakness.

Blessed Be,
Phoenix's Nika

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Post #: 11

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 6:17:55 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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This article backs up My statement perfectly, and it comes from the New York Public Library.

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/goldman/jealousy.html

It unveils the true face of jealousy, and there is nothing pretty or right about it. Plainly put, if you are jealous you have issues and you are going to destroy your relationship if you do not deal with them.. By "mental problems" I meant having issues inside your head, and that is exactly where jealousy stems from.

Jealousy is not justified. Jealousy is never right. Jealousy is never ok. Jealousy is never tolerable. Jealousy is destructive.

I REFUSE to put up with anyone that has jealousy or insecurity issues. I absolutely will not tolerate it under any circumstances. I have no use for it and I have no patience for it. Deal with your baggage before wasting My time. I am not a jealous or insecure person. You will not be either. I tell every woman this right up front. If you are the jealous type, there is the door. Do not let it hit you in the ass on the way out.

Heh. Can you tell I have dated jealous women? What a disaster. Sheesh. I had one so jealous that I could not even go over to My neighbors house, who was a female, with her pounding on the door, yelling and screaming, accusing Me of cheating on her and throwing herself down on the lawn, yelling and screaming at Me.

If you want to deal with that shit and justify it, go ahead and be My guest. I have better things to do with My time than deal with that crap, thank you.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to Phoenixandnika)

Post #: 12

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 6:22:19 PM

Phoenixandnika

Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline

Kenin,

If a woman in your collar was jealous would you simply disregard her for it or punish her for it. Or try discuss the whys behind the emotion?

Blessed Be,
Nika

_____________________________

"Life is neither a bed of roses nor a carpet of thorns, it's just what you make of it."

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 13

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 6:30:32 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

Truthfully, and I am being very honest here, I would ask her why the jealousy when I explicitly told her in no uncertain terms that I would not put up with it. If there was no decent response (and it would have to be really good, like I totally screwed up or something) and it did not change in very short order she would be immediately dismissed. That would be it.

See, I have found that women are very easy to come by. There truly is no shortage of them and I have never had a problem finding one. Why, then, would I willingly subject Myself to that torture, not knowing when My next move might put her panties in a twist? I would rather be alone and wait for the next one to come along. As I explained already, dealing with jealousy, in My experience at least, can be brutal. I never want to go through that hell again.

I am truly blessed, though. My wife is fantastic. There are no jealousy and insecurity issues. She is wonderful and I love her with all My heart.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to Phoenixandnika)

Post #: 14

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 6:36:13 PM

NakedOnMyChain

Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline

I think we all get a little jealous from time to time. None of us are perfect, and it can be a healthy emotion that provides a learning experience. With that said, it's what we do with our jealousy that defines us. If we let it take over and control us, it's obviously unhealthy. If we deal with it, communicate about it, and resolve it like an adult without letting it eat away at us, then we come out of the experience a bigger, better person.

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"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
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(in reply to wouldlike2)

Post #: 15

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 6:38:36 PM

OhBeMyMind

Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

I think we all get a little jealous from time to time. None of us are perfect, and it can be a healthy emotion that provides a learning experience. With that said, it's what we do with our jealousy that defines us. If we let it take over and control us, it's obviously unhealthy. If we deal with it, communicate about it, and resolve it like an adult without letting it eat away at us, then we come out of the experience a bigger, better person.

Wow....very nicely said!!! Kudos!

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Post #: 16

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 6:40:00 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

I think we all get a little jealous from time to time. None of us are perfect, and it can be a healthy emotion that provides a learning experience. With that said, it's what we do with our jealousy that defines us. If we let it take over and control us, it's obviously unhealthy. If we deal with it, communicate about it, and resolve it like an adult without letting it eat away at us, then we come out of the experience a bigger, better person.

Would you care to provide an example where you learned from jealousy that you could not learn from another, healthier emotion? I have yet to see one in 35 years.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)

Post #: 17

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 6:40:15 PM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
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I'm not a jealous person myself, but that's not to say that I haven't experienced the emotion. I simply don't care for that particular emotion. If I feel jealous, then I remove myself from the situation.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 18

RE: about jealousy.. - 5/12/2006 6:48:45 PM

michaelGA2

Posts: 1533
Joined: 4/26/2006
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i would think that there would be alot of jealousy in poly homes or with Dominants that have a harem.

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Post #: 19

RE: about jeaulousy.. - 5/12/2006 6:55:31 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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With any extreme emotion you can say the person has psychological issues. Romantic love is a form of madness in itself, in so far as one stops seeing the world through what is generally considered the objective norm and jealousy is closely linked to romantic love.

I don't agree with you that the best way to deal with the issue is to basically tell someone to fuck off.

Hmm. What was all that bullshit I was reading about doms supposed to be caring, ethical, moral and full of integrity? It must have been in a comic somewhere.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 20

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