RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/26/2011 5:59:51 PM)

Seafood I enjoy, and being five minutes walk from the sea I should ideally be foraging the shoreline, but we have been warned, the waters near are held close by a break water and everything that gets dumped into the sound stays there for a while until there is a storm, but I wonder at this given the fact that the shoreline is very rich in sealife. Many bivalve creatures seem to flourish and they are eating the water and even in our local so called heavy metal and sewerage infested estuary, I have found samphire growing, a delicacy costing lots at resturaunts. If pollution was so bad, I ask why is sealife and plants thriving so much. Yeah sure we are leaving them alone through fear of pollution and a much evolved taste, but I ask would life be flourishing so much in so contaminated waters.

But I fish too with rod and line, anything that will take my lure, I ain't fussy, as fish in this country has risen high in price and that no doubt because of fuel increases both in the catching and the transporting. Oil is affecting everything where in the past it did not, I wonder, in finding oil did we not set ourselves up for disaster. The family have just bought a fishing boat, nothing spectacular, but enough to weather heavy seas and fish out in the English Channel, my contribution being skint is I am the only mechanic in the family, the engines and associated systems are mine to make sure they are right, the carpenters in the family have virtually rebuilt the boat, they also bought it in a rather sorry state, but it was cheap and we are skilled if not wealthy as a family.

Salt I do not put on food, because I can taste salt in food already, but I am aware arable lands are becoming exhausted and that because of the intensive farming that is needed for maximum growth and where land is exhausted modern nitrate based fertilisers are needed, which infests the product and the run off from the land. Fair enough humanity has cured many ancient diseases, but could it be the diseases we get now are based upon our current circumstance given the belief that nothing is without consequence, as we evolve, so does that which plagues us, as we live so does that that preys on us. The food chain as it is always



Termyn8or -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/27/2011 4:45:15 AM)

"looking at workplace lack of activity and pointing out that the missing 100-150 calories/day is what's lead to our weight gain over the past 5 decades."

Absolutely, and I don't think it's just 150 calories. Having sex uses up that much - if you don't last too long. The vast range of jobs could not be comprehended by analysts, at least not completely.

I don't know where you been, but take a factory. Say you have a punchpress operator. He stands there, puts the parts on the table, aligns them and pushes a button. Oh wait, that's two buttons now. Then the piece is thrown into a bin. There is another person who has to roll these bins around all day, possibly servicing several machines. That amounts to more than 150 calories. This was typically eight hours a day. One third of their life.

Once I was hired as a machine operator, you stand there. But then once I was a coolie. In a shop with large horizontal boring mills etc., it was my job to pull the chips out of the machines. All day, eight hours. Once the wheelbarrell was full I ran them out to the dumpster, of course not the garbage dumpster, that was separate. But then I get to run the wheelbarrell up a 2 X 10 to about my height, dump it in and then literally slide back down due to the oil all over the board. Even with strength it took a running start. Get this thing full of steel up to speed or else you slide back down before getting all the way up. Fail, try again until you do it. Then you go back in the building and do it again. The machinists would get the machine set up and running, and then sit down and do a crossword puzzle. My Father did, he's the one who got me that job. Once it's cutting, physical exertion is no longer required, you just have to be there in case something goes wrong.

So now, even factory jobs rarely require the physical exertion because of automation and robotics. I once worked at a fabriction shop. The job was running an abrasive cutter. The welder used to do it himself, but my job was created because he didn't quite have the respect for machinery required. He was to the point where if he lost one more finger he would not be able to work at all. So I had to cut the stock, square tubing, angle iron or whatever was called for, and bring it to the welder. He hadly had to take more than a few steps. All he needed was that steady heand. Even walking, he didn't need to go farther than the length of a dry cell battery testing machine. We were building them for Eveready I think. After he got done building the frame. others came in and installed the electronic components.

Cute machine, the batteries go through and they are load tested. The rejects were ejected by a solenoid. But now, do they even manually weld car frames together ? I'd bet the major part of that task is automated. And can you really blame them ? Automated welding is better, more accurate and can produce more reliable welds usually.

Part of the problem is offshore outsourcing of course, but that doesn't solve the fact that in mass production, automation makes sense. Even at a penny a day the automation is worth it. We don't just have to compete with people who will work for a penny a day, we have to compete with robots who will work for nothing a day.

So now people fight for the closest parking spot and take an elevator up to the gym where they then get on a treadmill and then a stairstepper. It makes no sense, but that's about par for the course.

Well I think I am off "work" today. The grass in the backyard is scrotum high and the lawnmower won't start. I guess I'll just get out the sickle and get started. Too bad I can't pay myself for that.

T^T



Termyn8or -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/27/2011 4:56:27 AM)

"But of food, I tend to stick to D'adamos theories regarding blood groups,"

Oh, so you've read "One Man's Food" eh ? I found it quite interesting. What I found hard to swallow was the iridology part. Now I fully understand that some ailments or conditions will affect the eyes and that those effects can be seen by the trained eye. But I think he got too specific.

So iridology was dismissed along with phrenology. But any "science" was based on obsevrable fact at one time. Once disproved it is discarded. But do we believe the disproof ? Note that accupuncture was totally dismissed by western medicine for a long time, and now things have changed.

Wonder why I don't believe anything ? Yeah right.

"we are skilled if not wealthy as a family. "

Define wealth. It's been redefined once, now it's time to go back to the old definition. Skills are TRUE wealth. Money is a marker. Nothing more. Like a poker chip, or a coupon for half off something you may need. Like a score card in a game.

T^T



samboct -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/27/2011 8:28:08 AM)

"If pollution was so bad, I ask why is sealife and plants thriving so much. Yeah sure we are leaving them alone through fear of pollution and a much evolved taste, but I ask would life be flourishing so much in so contaminated waters. "

Bad assumption here. Don't assume that's what's toxic to you kills all bivalves. Life evolved to deal with the niches- this is why there are thermophilic bacteria that live in hot, sulfurous seawater at great depths.

However, to the point of bivalves- yes, too much pollution like sewage will kill them because it takes the oxygen out of the water, but they can adapt to having heavy metals in their environment quite nicely by sequestering the metals in compartments. Look up tunicates and vanadium for an extreme example of this. Plants also can sequester heavy metals- one of the ways to remove cadmium from a contaminated site is to grow plants that absorb the metal- and then harvest the plants which will have concentrated the metal, making it much easier to dispose of.

So just because bivalves and other organisms can live in this environment- doesn't mean that you can eat them and get away with it. Human adaptation is that if you eat this stuff you die- and the species learns not to eat stuff that comes from contaminated seawater. The bivalves have also gone through this process, but their lifecycle is a lot shorter than yours.

Sam



a1111 -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/27/2011 11:12:26 AM)

I believe most illnesses are caused by repressed emotions, even most kinks too, a quick google search will back up what I say, a healthy diet is good but ushers a lot more important stuff.



Termyn8or -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/28/2011 7:07:44 AM)

""If pollution was so bad, I ask why is sealife and plants thriving so much. Yeah sure we are leaving them alone through fear of pollution and a much evolved taste, but I ask would life be flourishing so much in so contaminated waters. "

Bad assumption here. Don't assume that's what's toxic to you kills all bivalves. Life evolved to deal with the niches- this is why there are thermophilic bacteria that live in hot, sulfurous seawater at great depths. "

Seems you oopsed a bit there and put that in reply to me. ( FR ? ) But now that we're on the subject, I agree. However that sea life is doing well in and of itself doesn't seem quite right. What would be the point of reference ? Production levels of commercial fishermen ? From time to time I've heard that it's not going so well. Yields go down. Whether it is because of overfishing or pollution is anybody's guess.

While it's a good assumption that species' with a shorter lifespan will adapt - as a species - to changes in the environment faster, there is the question of whether you want to eat shrimp that has adapted to eating crude oil. Warning of mercury levels in fish have been around for decades as well. Apparently it just doesn't bother them so much.

Another question is just how that much mercury got in there. It's expensive so I don't think they throw it around. I understand that machining cadmium alloys gives off nasty vapors, and any dust created is not quite healthy either. But nobody cuts or grinds mercury. Are there that many compounds of mercury used that much in industry ? Really ?

Other than certain people who don't know how to stick a pipe in the ground on the gulf floor, just how much do we do and how much of this "pollution" just occurs in nature ? Well the ocean is technically on the ground, and these things come from the ground. In fact seawater has a whole lot more in it than H2O, and we didn't put it there.

Things change, then a species will adapt, it's obviously not the other way around. Subsequent generations of those that can adapt are born into the new environment, those that cannot adapt simply don't have any more generations.

Will we ever adapt to junkfood ? I tend to doubt it, but then there are those organisms down in the sulfury waters deep under the sea........

T^T



Termyn8or -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/28/2011 7:15:41 AM)

"I believe most illnesses are caused by repressed emotions,"

Can't completely disagree with that, but I wouldn't say most. I think it's a two way street, emotions can cause hormonal changes. This can of course affect digestion. But then if one is not healthy because of a poor diet, they are likely not to feel well. That would lead to less exercise, perhaps even worse eating habits. It could turn into a vicious circle.

T^T



LadyConstanze -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/28/2011 8:04:57 AM)

I think that is such a sweeping and stupid generalization, if you're born with a genetic disposition, then how is that linked to repressed emotions? In that case all babies would be born healthy, my thyroid would be working just fine (and I wouldn't have a family history or thyroidism), nobody who's happy would ever get sick...



Termyn8or -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/28/2011 8:10:15 AM)

Hold on, I said "I wouldn't say most".

T^T



LadyConstanze -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/28/2011 8:17:57 AM)

Sorry, used fast reply, was more meant as a reply to a1111

Repressed emotions or emotions can make a difference but they can't change genetics, nor can they make up for nutritional disasters, even the happiest person couldn't stay healthy on a Big Mac or chocolate diet.



Aneirin -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/28/2011 5:29:31 PM)

Like I said, we are dying fom the day we are born, perhaps disease is a symptom of that, thins going screwy to hasten the end. Perhaps a premature death in  reasonable health rather than the slow rot of age



Termyn8or -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/28/2011 7:53:41 PM)

OK, no harm no foul. I don't see a disagreement here. However on the subject of genetics, I will and do assert that we are not all the same. It's been stated that humans for example, lost the ability to manufacture their own vitamin C a long time ago. But what of those who live on whale blubber ? Ther aren't many oranges growing in Alaska.

So somehow they adapted yet those who got scurvy didn't. Why ? If that is true then part of the problem may be with peoples' relocation around the globe. If I went into a Japanese McDonald's I would probably puke before even placing an order. Similarly, if they ever saw what I do as the ultimate steak dinner they would also puke.

Now to take genetics in as a factor there are two major things that need to be incorporated. One is where you are versus from where your ancesetors emmigrated. Then there is the time factor. How many generations of your family have been in that geographical area ? And what was the "old country" like ? And what is the history before and after the emmigration ?

Correlating all this vast information, even if it were obtainable would give the Cray a headache. But I think the human brain might be able to handle it. Maybe. But like any processor we need to decide on the priotirties. Those whould be the ones that anhance our chances of life correct ?

So you got guys from Sweden go to Maxico. Git some Mex Tex. If you ever catch me eating bland boiled rice, I'll sign a contract that you are allowed to kill me. People have different tastes, some inborn, as well as some learned. Indeed taste must have been a factor in the progress of us, the beast, because we lived.

I bought three different types of seasalt, harvested from different areas of the globe. The reason I did this was because I know that the mineral distribution about this planet is not quite equal. Those high cancer rates in China, well it has been reported that many of those areas have soil which is deficient in selenium or something. You can link this to cause and effect or not, your choice. But when considering the wealth of evidence out there, the unfortunate fact is that anything can be proven, even if not fact. If we were all honest this would go alot more smoothley.

But it snot. Such notions are tossed out by the politically correct sellouts. And I don't care. Why should I, for a species that would annihalate it's own kind for personal gain ? The worst part of it is, that is I had all the answers I think I would keep them to myself.

T^T

T^T



Awareness -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/28/2011 9:09:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
Melanomas too- which since we're spending less time in the sun is something of a puzzle.
  Strangely enough, it's not.  Melanomas represent a relatively small number of cancers worldwide, but there is phenomenal evidence which links Vitamin D deficiency with increased rates of cancer and subsequent mortality.  Spending more time inside is WHY we're getting cancer more often.

See this publication by the American Journal of Public Health:  http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/reprint/96/2/252

It details more than 60 studies which demonstrate this very fact.  The correlation between increased cancer and lower sunlight levels is fascinating.

In short, get out in the sun.  If you're black, get out a lot MORE because your skin pigmentation is making your production of Vitamin D more difficult.  Take precautions of course and avoid the high uv-level parts of the day, but get out of the house into the sunshine.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/28/2011 9:23:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

But what of those who live on whale blubber ? Ther aren't many oranges growing in Alaska.

I was going to list all the native vegetables the Inuits et al eat in Alaska from my Alaskan cookbooks, but fuck it. People will believe what they want.



Termyn8or -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/29/2011 12:22:37 AM)

Alaska was not accurate. Sorry. I KNOW they grow vegetables there. I am talking the Arctic.

T^T



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/29/2011 2:47:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Alaska was not accurate. Sorry. I KNOW they grow vegetables there. I am talking the Arctic.

T^T
So am I. Google Fireweed. Coltsfoot. Sea Cucumber. Fiddlehead Fern. Mousenuts. Eskimo Potato. Spruce. Birch Syrup. Seaweed. Lamb's Quarters. Cattail. Highbush Cranberry. Goose Tongue. Juniper. Marsh Marigold. Scurvy Grass. Kelp. Willow. Salmonberries. And the biggest mushrooms I've ever seen. Don't forget, tribes traded. "Alaskas' Plentiful (and tasty) Wild Foods", Alaska mag, July 76. "The Bush Gourmet", Alaska mag, July 77. I spent a little over 3 weeks helping build a lodge out of wet fresh-sawn wood (40,000 lbs. 5 miles up the bay from Larsen Bay, Kodiak Island. Google Earth or Bing it. You can see the cabin. I had a lot of opportunity to read up on stuff like that. Try hauling a true 8"x8"x16 ft. wet beam up a 30 foot cliff.

It's fucking heavy.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/29/2011 3:13:18 AM)

Termy, take something else into consideration, over generations people adapt, for example certain tribes have an intolerance to booze, it was never something they had in their cultures, they might have smoked herbs, eaten shrooms all that, but they didn't have booze, so they are lacking the enzyme to break down alcohol, one drink and they become alcoholics... Now if you apply that to the way they used to live and eat and all of a sudden within a relatively short time span (a few generations) their diet changes, they just didn't have enough time to adapt.



Termyn8or -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/29/2011 1:19:11 PM)

Their diet changes. That is exactly what I am talking about. Before your Greatgreatgreatgreat whatever left the old country, did they have this problem ? Even with the supposedly same diet, alot of food is grown locally, so that comes back to the mineral content of the soil. The organism is adapted to a certain mineral "signature" so to speak. The ratio of calcium to copper, of manganese to phosphorous etc.

Then the organism which has been adapted to one "formula" of mutrition all the sudden has to get along with another, one that does not match their specific needs. This is where genetics and nutrition meld, and become exceedingly complex.

What to do about it ? I have my plan but should I even say it ? Because it might not be right for others, I only know it's right or close to right for me.

T^T



LadyConstanze -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/29/2011 1:37:54 PM)

I believe that if you're healthy and you are having a good diet, your body lets you know what it needs, you have certain cravings for food (again provided your diet is not a total mess and you are healthy) because your body tells you something, most people have lost that ability because they rely too much on overly processed food or eat too much sugar, which really messes with your system.

There's also this craziness that everybody's body should be a certain way, two people with the same height can have completely different shapes and bone structures, the right weight for one could be overweight for the other or too thin, but we grow up that we have to look a certain way, which leads to a lot of eating disorders.



Termyn8or -> RE: Think what you eat is killing you? (5/29/2011 5:51:35 PM)

"(again provided your diet is not a total mess and you are healthy"

Again I think we are agreeing on some things. But let me expound, and this might get deep. Now I don't have kids, but I have logic and I assert that for one, you should keep kids as far away from sugar as humanly possible. I also think it's a big mistake to use food as a reward. Let's put it this way (NOT THE SAME THING I KNOW) if you can't train a dog without treats you can't train a dog. The food is a crutch and in this way the eating disorder gets passed on from generation to generation.

Now, we are fighting chemists who spend all day trying to entice the consumer (who is usually cribbing like a farm animal) to CRAVE their product. If that's not bad enough, sweets are associated in people's minds with the good ole days of childhood, and for some eating is almost a religious experience. I shit you not, I have seen it in my own Father, who would still be alive if he would have eaten right, guaranteed.

There is alot more. Women put that perfume on and have no fucking idea what's in it, it's a trade secret, and now that we're on that, what is in Secret ? What is in FDS ? What is in cologne, toilet water, bath "salts" that bear no resemblence to real salt or, of course not only the foods we eat, but the shit people drink. Can you think of one healthy thing to drink that is blue ? Kids cry for it, and they suffer no problems - TODAY.

But my point is that it is also psychological, ever hear of "comfort food" ? Comfort food is good healthy food when you're hungry, not some box of things you can leave anywhere because even rats and roaches won't eat it. Seriously, pests in wharehouses are not a problem for purveyors of the worst killer junk food on the planet, the fucking pests won't eat it. But people will.

Because it makes them feel good. If I am pissed off I don't eat, no matter how hungry I am. Burn one, I don't get the munchies, I broke that cycle decades ago. I THINK, not FEEL what I must eat. That is a fundamental change in personality, and a giant leap for a hell of alot of people.

That's one hell of a fight, to get people right about this. And of course there are other factors, you mentioned genetics and yes that is very significant. But there are also poisons that come to us not even related to food. There are learned people who say "If you won't put it in your mouth don't put it on your skin". The skin secretes of course, everyone knows that. But what of the reverse ? Do they think that nitroglycerine and nicotine patches as well as the norplant work by magic or something ?

They might be that stupid, really. But nobody has enough fight in them to take this on in any large way. But if I'm right, they die and I live. Actually I'll have to give that some thought. The doc said I could live to be 100. You wouldn't believe how happy that didn't make me.

T^T



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