...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (Full Version)

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sunshinemiss -> ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 4:04:23 AM)

So the whole "do you have contempt for" thing....

This is not that.

However, it was spawned from it.

I'm curious about the process folks have gone through in order to "come out" or to become more honestly who they are in regards to belief systems. For example, the "submitting" thing .... so many self-identified "submissive" women are anything but in real life. Or... "good guys don't hit girls."... or whatever belief you held that you had to shake off in order to integrate this other part of you.

How did you alleviate the cognitive dissonance that is part and parcel of holding the two realities at the same time?

Best,
sunshine

p.s. I would appreciate if this didn't turn into a bloodbath.



DesFIP -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 4:39:00 AM)

Sexually, I've never been conflicted. No Catholic guilt or such.

I think the most conflict is because I really feel he gets the short end of the bargain. To me, being in charge, having to make decisions, weighing everyone's needs is a long, exhausting and thankless task. And I feel guilty letting him do it because it is so difficult to me. I went through a period where I tried to figure out what he gets out of this, besides the whole blowjobs on demand, and finally I had to give up and just accept that he's getting what he needs, even if I can't see how. But it still nags at me, and occasionally I will try to spare him this, which never works out well, since he really doesn't want to be spared the decision making.



dreamerdreaming -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 5:15:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

p.s. I would appreciate if this didn't turn into a bloodbath.




[sm=microwave.gif]


I never had any trouble with it. I embrace who I am. Whatever side of the slash I'm on, or if I'm in a vanilla phase- it feels right to me. I enjoy being me! [:)]

Thanks for asking!



mynxkat -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 5:21:03 AM)

For me, the whole assertive aggressive woman thing was a mask that I conciously wore to be able to function in 'normal' society. Now that I'm with Master, I don't feel like I'm wearing that mask anymore, even though he has me making most of the day to day decisions about running the house and I also get to make most of the decisions about what to do with my time and how I dress and the like, unless he decides he wants to step in and have me do something specific. I think the main difference is that the decisions I'm making now are in service to him, so it isn't the same thing emotionally as making those exact same sorts of decisions on my own was. Probably doesn't make much sense, but there it is.



sunshinemiss -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 5:37:27 AM)

quote:

For me, the whole assertive aggressive woman thing was a mask that I conciously wore to be able to function in 'normal' society.


That's an interesting perspective mynx. Must think on it.
sunshine



LillyBoPeep -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 6:04:34 AM)

i have to agree with mynx on the "assertive aggressive woman" thing. i sorta became that way for a while out of "retaliation" against the way i grew up.it was an old fashioned religious family where you were secondary by virtue of just being female, and i don't believe in that, despite the fact that, yes, i am a female sub. i'm a sub because of my personality, and it has nothing to do with my femaleness.
so i became as opposite as possible but always felt very uncomfortable.
so probably the biggest chunk of cognitive dissonance i had to come to terms with is that it's OKAY to be submissive. =p and the world of women's rights isn't depending on me becoming some huge CEO just because i got good grades and there's a point to make. =p

i've always kind of been aware of the masochism, and it was probably less frustrating to me than the whole "i'm female but that isn't what makes me a sub" issue. masochism could be handled all sorts of sneaky ways, and since sex is generally painful for me, it works out. =p haha
only during my last relationship did i really get a chance to actually explore BDSM. But the "you're sub because you're a girl" stuff never came up in that relationship, because we were pretty much on the same wavelength there.



OttersSwim -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 6:10:56 AM)

As a male...seeing yourself in the mirror in a dress...and finding that you like it.  What's more, feeling so deeply that what you are seeing is what you should have seen all along that your heart breaks...shatters some barriers and creates others.

Certainly it puts one on a journey of self-discovery...at least it did for me.

Decades of repression of self, denial of self are not good for the soul and such charades cannot be held up forever.

When I finally put that burden down...well, life is full of things to pick back up and I had the perspective of carrying something that I hated for a lot of years and did not want to do that again.  So I was selective.

Once a guy can accept himself in a dress, and outwardly express that acceptance in public...it is not so much to let someone strip you naked, tie you up, and make you sing Old MacDonald to a room full of people.  Especially if such things appeal.  [;)]



Kana -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 6:15:08 AM)

I'm a guy who kinda embraces contradiction so the duality of being a sadist and a guy who loves women was something I had to work through.,
At first it was tough. I mean, I'm a gentleman, I was raised w/manners, in a house full of admirable and wonderful women. I believe that all people, and certainly ladies (note the careful use of the word here), should be treated in a certain way. It's what I was brought up with and it's what I view as polite and decent.
Juxtaposing that with liking to do terrible and agonizing things to willing sluts took some real work, which, of course, also led to personal growth.
I think most guys, especially when new, wrestle with this. For me, the change came when a gal pointed out I wasn't doing anything to her, I was doing something with her and that she wanted, needed, was willing to crawl and beg for me to take what was so freely offered, that by not assuming control and taking up the leash I was actually harming her much more than any damage I inflicted with a whip.
That was my first real insight into the submissive psyche and it only changed everything.
I had to realize that there are women out there who seek guys to do the things to them that I like to do, and that they are gonna seek no matter what. Better that it be me, a decent guy with some restraint and sanity, to take them where they needed to go than some wingnut John Wayne Gacy wannabe. In fact, when I looked at things from that perspective, I was actually doing her a favor, being nice so to speak.
Yeah, that realization changed a lot of things too...

Just a few thoughts.



littlewonder -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 6:15:25 AM)

the only conflict I've ever had is that being a single mom and having to struggle for almost everything in my life, I've had to be the strong one, make the decisions, blah blah blah....knowing full well how much I absolutely hated having to be that way. It's not my personality, it's not who I am. I felt like a fraud trying to be the strong independent single mom. To this day I know I made a lot of fuck ups in my daughter's life because that's not my personality and I now live with those decisions.





sirssubk2008 -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 6:20:34 AM)

quote:

For example, the "submitting" thing .... so many self-identified "submissive" women are anything but in real life.


Gonna have to gt back to you on that since this is still a work in progress for me [:)] Thank you for starting the thread, maybe I will read something here that will help [;)]



LillyBoPeep -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 6:29:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
For me, the change came when a gal pointed out I wasn't doing anything to her, I was doing something with her and that she wanted, needed, was willing to crawl and beg for me to take what was so freely offered, that by not assuming control and taking up the leash I was actually harming her much more than any damage I inflicted with a whip.




what a great point, Kana! ^_^




sunshinemiss -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 6:44:14 AM)


For me one of the biggest bits of dissonane is about body image. Like many women, I struggle with it. I struggle with worthiness. I struggle with feeling pretty. And yet these are the very things I like to play with ... that I like to pull out and deal with ... in the right context. In my head I sometimes wonder if they are proof that I'm all effed up or if they are proof that I'm NOT!

The weird thing is that I've found three levels (so far). On the surface I will sometimes have issues around "Oh I'm not pretty, I'm not good enough, I'm ugly." I remember one of my sisters saying to me when I was a child, "Yeah you're pretty. Pretty ugly and pretty apt to stay that way." It rings in my head decades later. I'm sure that in fact it gives her great gales of glee to know that her hatred has in fact penetrated into me. (That was excellent alliteration, by the way). It really did enter my psyche and on occasion, I can hear her saying it. (By the way, I've found that when I salsa dance, there is ZERO room for that nonsense!)

Anyway, these levels are ... surface, like above, but then underneath that I am fierce! I am strong and powerful and beautiful, and don't-fuck-with-me fabulous. It's this amazing core of passion that shocks me at times.

And then the third level is this kind of lost little girl who wonders if I'm good enough, pretty enough. That is more like a wispy sort of occasional wondering. (Usually brought on by hormones!)

But it is the fact that these are the things that I will sometimes play with that causes me to not worry but... ponder. I love my body. It's wonderful. I love the pain / pleasure continuum. I love how they are interchangeable in some ways. But does it mean that really, deep down, I don't love my body? (rhetorical question)

That's the crux of the question in my mind and how it arose from me. I was pondering on my bike ride this evening...And then LaT made a comment that dovetailed into my thoughts.

Thus, this thread...

best,
sunshine



xssve -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 6:54:54 AM)

Yeah, the feminism thing works both ways, I had pretty much accepted that if I had a lot of very freaky ideas about sex, I wasn't alone, and there were women just as freaky as I was, but I had to go through the whole trial by fire thing, and had second thought for a while, but I resolved those when it became apparent that A.), at least some "feminists were simply trying to turn the tables on me, and I figured, if they want to play, all's fair in love and war, and B.), being "nice" bores the shit out of a lot of women.

The whole guilt trip thing is an ongoing process however, you have to be ready at any given moment to defend yourself from somebody trying to do a number on your head, turn you into the "patriarchal oppressor"  - I hate that because I'm a very freedom loving individual, I'm a humanist, and I can respect a need for autonomy self sufficiency - I simply could not take pleasure in a non-consensual dynamic, though I do love non-con play - but I do expect to be treated with the same respect - try to top me and it's on - those are the rules, you know - may the best uh, person win.

As far as I'm concerned, a sub can walk away at any time, that tends to keep me on my toes, prevents me from taking it too much for granted, so the balancing act works out for me to some extent, keeps me hungry.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
For me, the change came when a gal pointed out I wasn't doing anything to her, I was doing something with her and that she wanted, needed, was willing to crawl and beg for me to take what was so freely offered, that by not assuming control and taking up the leash I was actually harming her much more than any damage I inflicted with a whip.




what a great point, Kana! ^_^





ranja -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 7:00:53 AM)

We were stuck... so stuck we hardly had any sex at all and when we did pretty lame... and we could not even talk about it anymore... it seemed everything had been said and not made a difference... worn out old ground

One day i messed around in a chatroom on-line somewhere and came across a Dom who instructed me in quite a hot cyber session... and so many things fell in place for me, it was like breaking the surface and coming up for air.

So i went looking for more of that and came across a Dom who was kind enough to advise me on how to submit to my Husband...
It made sense... i was horrified but managed to follow the instructions...
The results were very very good

i think at heart i am just kinky and not really all that bothered about who's the boss
My Husband however is not so kinky but very interested in being the boss

For so long i was not submitting to Him i was just 'demanding' kink
i suppose i was a 'do me' and it turned Him off,
it had never even occurred to me that i could do a thing like submit to Him
i am very very glad this cyber Dom pushed me this way
things have changed since i have changed my ways

i have no trouble with different realities, everything is as real as you let it be

Edit: i like bloodbaths too (occasionally)



OttersSwim -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 7:03:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
...I was pondering on my bike ride this evening...


So, not to derail, but the idea of an evening bike ride in Korea sounds so exotic and wonderful!  I know it likely seems just normal to you, but how cool where you live! 

Otter is can have travel fetish?  YES!



juliaoceania -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 8:05:04 AM)

My family and friends know of my tendencies in my intimate relationships. It is pretty hard to keep to yourself when you have been involved in a relationship like this for years. Little things I said or did gave it away.

I do not act submissively with everyone. I do not even know what that means, to be honest. When I first started doing WIITWD I had a much different impression of what it meant, but what I discovered is that GOOD people had these traits, not just submissives.

Good people are giving

Good people give service to those they care for

Good people like to make those they love happy.

So the things I associate with my submission have to do with authority, not service, not being giving, not desiring to make my mate happy. I want to serve, give, and desire that my mate be happy because I am a good person. If my mate thinks that he does not need to serve, give, and desire my happiness that does not make in a dominant, it makes him a douche. He may serve in different ways than I do, but being a dom doesn't mean he gets to be an ass.

So now I have trouble writing about how I love serving my partner. I write about desiring to be pleasing on my profile, but I still have a mental block about that being "submissive", because I think dominants enjoy pleasing their subs too. I think people who please each other have healthy relationships. For me, submission is about my partner directing the relationship, complying with their authority when they believe it is necessary to exert it.

Maybe this post isn't what you were looking for, I didn't read the thread that spawned this one.



sunshinemiss -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 8:14:23 AM)

Otter - look again.

Julia, I think that's a perfectly fine addition to the thread.
sunshine



SailingBum -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 8:26:22 AM)

Yep Yep I'm very comfortable in my skin. To quote the great popeye, "I am what I am"


BadOne



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 8:34:15 AM)

quote:

How did you alleviate the cognitive dissonance that is part and parcel of holding the two realities at the same time?


For me at least, the cognitive dissonance had nothing to do with accepting the fact that I was "different" from other people, I've known that since I was about 2. It has nothing to do with discovering I was sexually different, still no biggie.

What I personally had to work through was in accepting my submissive side. I came out as a domme and thought of myself that way, despite having what was obviously a sexually submissive relationship at the time. When I say obvious, he did spank a/o restrain me on occasion.

In my mind, being submissive meant being weak, passive, needy, emotional, all kinds of things I did not see myself as being.

I did not fully accept my sub side until I had children. The maternal role (I was a stay at home mom) allowed me to develop my feminine side and discover it takes strength to be a submissive, that the sub qualities of being cooperative, flexible, a team player, emotionally more open and transparent, where all good qualities that I lacked and needed to develop.

Once I embraced that side of myself, instead of denying it, I became a much happier person.





LadyConstanze -> RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... (5/25/2011 8:42:33 AM)

I had a really hard time with being a sadist, I don't go around and hurt people randomly, I'm actually the girl who will pick up that birdie who fell out of the nest and nurse it through, help the old lady across the road, fuss around to make sure visitors are comfortable and all that, you know the "I'm not nasty, why do I enjoy causing pain..." An ex explained that I am not doing something nasty but something he craves, going pro for a while actually changed my outlook most dramatically, I mean there is a difference between somebody giving consent, they might just do that to please you, but nobody would give consent AND pay to get "treated" by a sadist, it took consent to a new level and it helped me to come to terms with the guilt issue. Sounds a bit crazy but it worked.



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