"Old Guard" versus "New Guard"

"Old Guard" versus "New Guard" (Full Version)

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compliantboy4u -> "Old Guard" versus "New Guard" (10/11/2004 8:12:23 AM)
What are the core tenents of the "Old Guard" lifestyle, and are they relevant today?

LadyBeckett -> RE: "Old Guard" versus "New Guard" (10/11/2004 9:11:11 AM)
This can has been opened, boy. I'm not sure if proudsub is back or not, but if she isn't someone will be kind enough to provide you will the numerous (or at least one or two) links where this has been ahem discussed (and discussed and discussed). [;)]

LadySonelle -> RE: "Old Guard" versus "New Guard" (10/11/2004 9:29:45 AM)
I shall give you My 'take' on it, being a member of both. The "old Guard" (San Francisco, pre-AIDS, Catacombs and Janus 1982 - 1992) ideals were separated into three eras in My mind. Pre-AIDS which focussed on "How high the moon" sort of balls-to-the-wall excesses. The idea was to see how much, how far, haow many you could go/do/experience. Drugs such as amyl nitrite (poppers) coke etc were fairly common. FFA (Fistfucking Aficionadoes) was in its ascendancy and places like the Chateau in LA, Catacombs in SF were doing landoffice business. Society of Janus was the first real West Coast SM instruction organisation. Started by Cynthia Slater, it was begun in San Francisco and spread to Los Angeles later. I joined when it opened in LA around 1982. The leather scene was primarily gay with very few het people beginning to show an interest. The mid-stage was the onset of AIDS. Suddenly very strange things were going on! People began to become ill, to die and the leather scene suffered casualty after casualty. I lost many friends then. My foster son died of AIDS as did one of My Master-teachers. I worked for the LA Gay and Lesbian Center running a newsletter for the LA-CARES Team and I watched leathermen fall. The dominant motto then weas "Safe Sane Consensual" and parties began to change. I remember raucous debates, angry arguments on whether or not Janus parties ought to require barrier protection. We all turned our eyes to Washington and saw inaction, cold indifference from the Reagan Administration. He never wept at our deaths and this year I returned the favour! I shed not a tear for the Great Communicator! The third "trimester" of the era was the near death of the leather community. Many Tops (myself included) were "burnt out" from the deaths and depression. we lost many many teachers, slaves, wonderful people. Fledermaus of SandMutopia was gone. Cynthia Slater died in 1989. Larry Townsend (IIRC) and a number of others perished. The fellow who did the Damron Guides was lost. Bathhouses were closed and party spaces gone. I left the scene and stayed very private for many years. I cared for my own family and laid low. The New Guard I know much less about as I have only become active again in the last few months. The world is a lot slicker, faster, and the Internet makes connecting a whole lot easier! No longer do I have to endure the sensory assaults of a gay leather bar or darneked party place. While I miss the Catacombs, the Shotwell House, the Probe, the Chateau and other great spaces, I do NOT miss the smoke-filled haze of noise! Today's Dominants and submissives take safe sex as simply part of the landscape, the background of how things are done. Slave contracts are drawn up and negotiated and there is more communication from the "bottom half" of the equation. These are all chages for the good. New kinks have appeared such as cuckolding, financial slavery, distance training and others. The novice bottom has to wade through endless "instaDom" websites trying to figure out who is genuine and who is not. The "word of mouth" that went on in the old community is not so easily accessed. That's My two cents worth on the topic. Lady Sonelle

proudsub -> RE: "Old Guard" versus "New Guard" (10/11/2004 12:23:43 PM)
quote: This can has been opened, boy. I'm not sure if proudsub is back or not, but if she isn't someone will be kind enough to provide you will the numerous (or at least one or two) links where this has been ahem discussed (and discussed and discussed). I'm back and yes there are many threads on this. I would suggest this time they do their own search by putting in "old guard" in the search space.

LadyBeckett -> RE: "Old Guard" versus "New Guard" (10/11/2004 8:18:20 PM)
"Old Guard" (Leather) was actually a lifestyle before it became a fad. It wasn't about being het or gay, or the hankie code, a movie or a book, and it certainly began long before the birth of Janus (although my sister was a member during her life, and so was I when I lived in California. I am also a member of the Janus Tribe group.) I say that I was raised in an Old Guard (leather) Lifestyle/Poly Family, but it is really just tags to give others something to identify with. They didn't have them then. They were Bikers with dungeons, Dom/mes with slaves, had codes, communication, agreements, and protected one another. My Grandparents lived a D/s lifestyle, and I really don't know what they called it. I never asked. It was just life. [;)]

Sylverdawn -> RE: "Old Guard" versus "New Guard" (10/12/2004 1:20:08 AM)
I supose if my research, reading, seminars and hours frank discussion with people like Master Ces of Houston, the late Master Dean Walradt, Joseph Bean, and so on and so forth has lead me correctly and if your looking for tenents (An opinion, doctrine, or principle held as being true by a person or especially by an organization) these are a few.. Code, Honor, Family, are OLD GUard.. New Guard includes the former and adds.. Responsibility to the individual and to pass on your knowledge. Aids devestated the gay leather scene.. and today's adherents are more aware of their responsiblity to their community as a whole I suppose. Their ideas about community have broadened as well .. Many embrace the idea of including bisexuals and heterosexuals in their community. I enjoy the company of leathermen, leatherwomen and leather slaves of all sexualities. Its a lifestyle that I can not embrace fully for myself but I do respect their commitment to it and their willingess to share it through seminars and discussion.

LadySonelle -> RE: "Old Guard" versus "New Guard" (10/12/2004 9:03:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyBeckett "Old Guard" (Leather) was actually a lifestyle before it became a fad. It wasn't about being het or gay, or the hankie code, a movie or a book, Quite so! While I was a new participant in 1981, I do recall seeing older leathermen, sitting with their boys, proud and scarred from a lifetime of social opprobrium. There was a settled dignity to them that was not something a newbie could buy. The leather was old, oiled and cared for, but you knew that it was not purchased on Santa Monica Blvd or at a boutique! The co0llars their boys wore were not S/m collars, but dog collars. There were no "tribal" tattoos, but what skin markings there were were traditional nonetheless. quote: and it certainly began long before the birth of Janus (although my sister was a member during her life, and so was I when I lived in California. I am also a member of the Janus Tribe group.) Northern or Southern chapter? If Northern, we probably have many friends in common. If Southern (LA) do you remember the S/m wedding in December 1984? We lived in Hollywood at the time. I had just left My husband and taken a slave. I put my initials in her sweet ass and we are clelbrating our 20th anniversary this year. I'm still very annoyed at poor dear bob flanagan. He videotaped our wedding... and promptly LOST the tape! Still, it was magical. quote: I say that I was raised in an Old Guard (leather) Lifestyle/Poly Family, but it is really just tags to give others something to identify with. They didn't have them then. They were Bikers with dungeons, Dom/mes with slaves, had codes, communication, agreements, and protected one another. My Grandparents lived a D/s lifestyle, and I really don't know what they called it. I never asked. It was just life. [;)] I was not so fortunate as you. I suppose, if one counts days spent in that sort of company, My time goes back even as far as 1973 when I "hung out" with the Long Beach Chapter of Hell's Angels. Certainly we weren't 'into' S/m at all. It was just getting together, partying on the beach and things like that. Still, I didn't get into S/m until ten years later when I discovered that spanking My partner during sex was a thrill! It's why My marriage ended. Ah well. I got the better of the deal! Lady Sonelle

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