When Does Public Consent Matter? (Full Version)

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allspicey -> When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 3:16:37 AM)

I've had this discussion numerous times and my opinion seems to differ from most so I thought I'd throw it to the forum wolves here [:D]

In my opinion we are often overly consciencious about what we do in public.  I wear my collar in public far more often than I don't.  I wear it to the grocery store, the bank, the pizza and video store.  I have a chauffeurs outfit that I wear when picking Master up from the airport, etc.  He has been known to tell me to fill the car with fuel when I am in fetish wear and we are on the way to the club.  I have a friend who has been known to kneel in McDonalds.  I have been out to the restaurant in leather cuffs and in fact, spent a whole day driving around in a car rally with the top down and the cuffs on (with the gay and lesbian club, that was funny but a story for another day...was even funnier when we won and someone yelled...It's THEM!). 

All of these things give a good many scene people the heebee geebees.  They talk about the poor unsuspecting public, the unconsenting public, etc.  I look around at the spikey purpled and pink haired dude with the massive face piercings and the spiked collar around his neck that I know isn't any kinkier than my next door neighbor, the girl dressed in clothes so clashing in colour as to make my eyes water, the business suit who just tossed his garbage on the sidewalk at my feet and a hundered other daily goings on by the general public and say....I consented to this???  Personally, unless it's whips in your face (and I admit, at munches we do sometimes get a bit carried away and bring a toy or two along, that's why we tend to try to have them in the back rooms), most of the general public don't have a clue and couldn't care less.  The cuffs, I admit, might be a bit more of a clue.  If they're locked on I do tend to wear my leather coat with the long sleeves...unless Master says differently.  But in our time together I've never had anyone comment on them actually.  The collar does occasionally get a reaction in which case I just smile and think..."Gotcha bub!".  Most people actually don't take any notice.  I kneel at home even when the 12 year old is here, just not as often and she thinks it's just Master and me having sweetheart time.  Of course there WAS that time he slipped the Christmas present under the tree with "To My slave" written on it and she saw it and said..."Dad, is she your slave because she gets you coffee?".  There was only one obvious answer to that.  I call Sir, Sir, everywhere, I never use his name to him and introduce him always as my partner.  I call him Sir on the phone at work, no one ever comments.  I wore my collar to work one day (I was testing the theory that no one would notice) and a guy who really thought he had a clue about my differentness (we had been jesting back and forth for two years) looked straight past it and said "I wonder what you are really up to".

Are we over paranoid?  Do we assume that everyone knows what we are doing because we are so accutely aware of it?  Should we really perhaps just relax a little?

Now I'm not advocating what an idiotic group of kinksters here did one fine summer day which was, on a lovely Sunday afternoon, in a public and crowded park, gladwrap someone to a pole.  That got the police called.  But simple small things such as collars, kneeling, speaking respectfully...perhaps we are a tad oversensitive?

Tell me what you think.  I'm interested to know.

spicey




ShiftedJewel -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 3:59:56 AM)

quote:

All of these things give a good many scene people the heebee geebees.  They talk about the poor unsuspecting public, the unconsenting public, etc.  I look around at the spikey purpled and pink haired dude with the massive face piercings and the spiked collar around his neck that I know isn't any kinkier than my next door neighbor, the girl dressed in clothes so clashing in colour as to make my eyes water, the business suit who just tossed his garbage on the sidewalk at my feet and a hundered other daily goings on by the general public and say....I consented to this??? 


Very well put!! I don't hide who I am in public, our girl wears her collar all the time, it's doesn't get removed... ever. In public she calls us Master and Mistress. In fact, we've never had a negative comment, twicehappy has gotten compliments on her collar in the middle of Cracker Barrel. I've worn my steal fingertips in public and had many people comment on how awesome they were and wanted to know where they could get some. The general public isn't as ignorant as most would have us believe. Sure, there are people out there that are outraged by wiitwd... but in the same respect there are people out there that are outraged by damn near everything. Do I care? Nope.
 
I strongly believe that we should live our lives as openly as possible, that's the only thing that is going to show the rest of the population that we are all just like the guy next door. I don't believe that we should openly "scene", that would be like saying I want to watch my neighbor having sex (ok, that's a pic I DON'T want in my head). But collars and fetish wear (so long as it's legal and all the stuff that is supposed to be covered up is)... why not? Is a corset and skirt more revealing then some of the bikinis seen on beachs all the time? My corset covers up more then most of my summer shirts... so which is more appropiate?
 
Jewel




bandit25 -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 4:36:30 AM)

I agree...I think we are a bit overly conscious of what we do in public.  On the other hand, I know of some people who would act like total jerks in public...so I'm divided on this one. 




Focus50 -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 4:41:03 AM)

Old fuddy-duddy here....
 
D/s is about sexuality and how I express intimacy and I don't get anything out of pushimg my sexuality into the public's face.  Rather than an obvious collar, I'd prefer the girl wore a more subtle equivalent that may get some wondering but not draw undue attention.  At the local supermarket, part of the women's Winter uniform includes a kind of narrow scarf that always grabs my attention, even though it's not about D/s.  I love subtle - sue me!  lol
 
There are still lotsa ways to dominate in public without the lifestyle ignorant ever knowing and I enjoy that, too - it's just our little secret....  I don't mind if others wanna show who they are; it's just not for me.
 
Focus.




agirl -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 4:52:28 AM)

You know , it's amazing what can be acheived with a winning smile and friendly outlook.


I really don't think that people care very much about what others *get up to*.......Humans are basically selfish and FAR more interested in themselves.

I've never had a negative response to any outward sign of my chosen life.... a little interest , some mild amusement sometimes.

The UK is rather accepting of the *eccentric* ....it means that we can *get away* with quite a lot.........lol

Regards, agirl





allspicey -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 4:52:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

D/s is about sexuality and how I express intimacy and I don't get anything out of pushimg my sexuality into the public's face. 


Okay, this is the other argument I hear.  Because BDSM isn't about my sex life but about my relationship with my Master, for me, wearing a collar is like someone else wearing a wedding ring.  It denotes a specific type of relationship I have with another person.  My sex life I prefer to keep private.  Wearing a collar might tell someone my sex life is a bit spicier than theirs (and this is a problem how? [;)] ) but then if they are showing me a picture of their wife and kids I figure I have about as much personal knowledge of their sex life as they do mine (ergo, they have one, possibly).  Being a number of people don't even have sex with their BDSM partners this argument is even further out the window.

Back to you all.

spicey




ExistentialSteel -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 4:54:53 AM)

Realistically, what do you have to do so outrageous that it is going to attract attention? You could have subtle rituals and avoid the public scrutiny.




agirl -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 4:56:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Old fuddy-duddy here....
 
D/s is about sexuality and how I express intimacy and I don't get anything out of pushimg my sexuality into the public's face.  Rather than an obvious collar, I'd prefer the girl wore a more subtle equivalent that may get some wondering but not draw undue attention.  At the local supermarket, part of the women's Winter uniform includes a kind of narrow scarf that always grabs my attention, even though it's not about D/s.  I love subtle - sue me!  lol
 
There are still lotsa ways to dominate in public without the lifestyle ignorant ever knowing and I enjoy that, too - it's just our little secret....  I don't mind if others wanna show who they are; it's just not for me.
 
Focus.


D/s is about sexuality?.....THAT'S where I'm going wrong ......grin

agirl




agirl -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 4:58:57 AM)

 On a slightly more serious note.......... M/s is bugger -all about sexuality..... it might INCLUDE sex, just as a marriage might...lol




PlayfulOne -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 5:04:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allspicey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

D/s is about sexuality and how I express intimacy and I don't get anything out of pushimg my sexuality into the public's face. 


Okay, this is the other argument I hear.  Because BDSM isn't about my sex life but about my relationship with my Master, for me, wearing a collar is like someone else wearing a wedding ring.  It denotes a specific type of relationship I have with another person.  My sex life I prefer to keep private.  Wearing a collar might tell someone my sex life is a bit spicier than theirs (and this is a problem how? [;)] ) but then if they are showing me a picture of their wife and kids I figure I have about as much personal knowledge of their sex life as they do mine (ergo, they have one, possibly).  Being a number of people don't even have sex with their BDSM partners this argument is even further out the window.

Back to you all.

spicey


Please read the post more carefully before you respond,  Focus specifically said " I " .  You answered him as if he were trying to make an argument and apply it to everyone.  what he said was it didsn't work for "HIM" but if it tripped your triggers have at it.

K




RavenMuse -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 5:20:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
On a slightly more serious note.......... M/s is bugger -all about sexuality..... it might INCLUDE sex, just as a marriage might...lol


Ah a girl after my own heart..... well so long as she isn't after it with a sharp knife [;)]

I guess my own reaction to this topic is coloured by living in the UK and being used to Glasgow, Manchester and London where frankly most forms of attire would be ignored by 99% of people in the street and the other 1% would be more likely to make appreciative comments than take offence.

Hell you should have seen some of the sights back in the Punk era, and that was just their hair! The UK is certainly more tollerant on that score than I found when visiting over the pond.

Collars, cuffs, corsetry, stockings, over done make-up.... Walk through a place like Camden and you will trip over plenty... some of it even on the women!

Personaly I'd draw the line at taking a dragon to a girls shapely backside in the middle of the shopping mall but most modes of dress or having a girl kneel.... wouldn't much raise notice nor offence in these parts.




feastie -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 5:26:45 AM)

We just had a very similar thread...

http://www.collarchat.com/Discrimination_in_Public_Places%25%25%25%25/m_353539/tm.htm





Focus50 -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 6:06:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allspicey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

D/s is about sexuality and how I express intimacy and I don't get anything out of pushimg my sexuality into the public's face. 


Okay, this is the other argument I hear.  Because BDSM isn't about my sex life but about my relationship with my Master, for me, wearing a collar is like someone else wearing a wedding ring.  It denotes a specific type of relationship I have with another person.  My sex life I prefer to keep private.  Wearing a collar might tell someone my sex life is a bit spicier than theirs (and this is a problem how? [;)] ) but then if they are showing me a picture of their wife and kids I figure I have about as much personal knowledge of their sex life as they do mine (ergo, they have one, possibly).  Being a number of people don't even have sex with their BDSM partners this argument is even further out the window.

Back to you all.

spicey

Never mind "out the window", in reality my "argument" happens to be my personal preference and opinion, so it stays right where it is! 
 
You did ask people to tell you what we think but I don't subscribe to any "one size fits all" BDSM ethos.  If you only wanted validation for your choices, you should've said....  Just because I don't flaunt it doesn't mean I'm in denial of who I am, either!
 
I'll add that I don't differentiate between D/s intimacy or "sex life", either.  I prefer both to be private.
 
I'm perfectly fine with the personal choices you and others make, it's so difficult to reciprocate?
 
Focus.




Focus50 -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 6:15:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
D/s is about sexuality?.....THAT'S where I'm going wrong ......grin

From your first post here, I'm stunned anything could possibly be going wrong for you.... [;)]
 
Focus.




Focus50 -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 6:23:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

 On a slightly more serious note.......... M/s is bugger -all about sexuality..... it might INCLUDE sex, just as a marriage might...lol


Well while we're all getting "serious", whether I'm in a committed M/s or casual D/s relationship, *both* come under the same umbrella of SEXUALITY = personal and private. <gasp>
 
Focus.




sabswife -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 6:43:25 AM)

i view a collar like a wedding ring.  perhaps maybe if it is a problem for you -- you could start off with a less obvious permanant collar and work up to something more later on?

i think honestly in todays society it is easier to wear a collar in public as it has become-- in some ways unfortunately-- part of fashion for many.




PlayfulOne -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 7:12:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sabswife

i view a collar like a wedding ring.


I understand perfectly clear what you mean and in theory it works great.  Actual day to day life those thoughts and ideas can not work for everyone once they step out of the home.  How my little one views her collar is not relevant to whether she should be wearing it or not.  She is resposible for running a business and if she were to show up for a meeting with the bank president wearing a collar with a big pad lock and cuffs it would be a disaster as surely as if she were to walk in wearing flip flops and a tank top.  I visit her at work,  I call her by her name or "little one" which is her pet name, if I were to call out, "Hey  come here bitch" in front of the people who are under her authority it would be completely improper.

Life  can be hard enough and I feel no need to create difficult situations for my girl.  We all do what we need to make our situations work.  If you can make it work or feel the need to then by all means whatever makes youi happy.   WE neither can or want to and others should respect that just as much.

K

Whether she is wearing her collar or not has no actual bearing on the fact that in her mind she is "wearing" it




MasterR001 -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 7:50:17 AM)

You make many good points. 




mistoferin -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 7:56:04 AM)

The title to your thread is "When does public consent matter?". I will answer that for me....it always matters. Regardless of whether or not we are referring to lifestyle issues or anything else that falls outside of what are perceived to be the societal "norms", I feel that conducting myself in a manner that emphasizes courtesy and respect for others is paramount. This is what works for me in MY life and is MY opinion. I don't think that will necessarily help you much in deciding what is right for you.

I guess that the best answer that I can come up with is...if you make a decision to go against the grain and set yourself apart from what society has deemed to be acceptable.....then you need to accept the full responsibility for your actions. If you choose a tougher row to hoe...then hoe it....and don't complain about how hard it is. To be different and stand apart means that you will draw attention...sometimes it will be negative and unwanted. If you make that choice then be prepared to deal with the fallout.




allspicey -> RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? (5/13/2006 8:23:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: allspicey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

D/s is about sexuality...
 
...and how I express intimacy ...


Okay, this is the other argument I hear. 

Because BDSM isn't about my sex life but about my relationship with my Master, for me, wearing a collar is like someone else wearing a wedding ring. 

spicey


Please read the post more carefully before you respond,  Focus specifically said " I " .  You answered him as if he were trying to make an argument and apply it to everyone.  what he said was it didsn't work for "HIM" but if it tripped your triggers have at it.

K



Okay, I'd like to take this piecemeal.  First of all, if anyone has taken offense to the way I worded my response, my apologies.  It certainly was not meant as a personal attack.

Secondly, Focus first stated "D/s is about sexuality".  He then stated that for HIM it is how he expresses intimacy.  The first statement is a general one I happen to disagree with.  For many, D/s is not about sexuality.

Next point.  In my response I clearly stated this is an argument I hear.  The implication being that other people have put forth the argument or opinion that D/s is about sexuality.  This was not aimed at any one person but rather stating, perhaps poorly, that it is a fairly common opinion or counter argument that I have heard.  I then phrased how my D/s life is not about sexuality but about a type of relationship, therefore creating a counter argument to the sexuality issue as not being true for everyone.  This does not mean it is not true for many...just not for all or even the majority.  Nor does saying that mine D/s is about relationships mean that it is the same for all...or even for the majority.

I put forth these topics to stimulate discussion, not promote a way of life for everyone.  These are topics I find stimulating to hear other people's views, opinions and yes, arguments on (debate type, not personal type).  I often find a new insight in throwing an old topic out to a new group of people. Sometimes I simply hear the same things reiterated in new forums but it's always interesting.  I never take such discussions personally as that rather kills any lively discussion going on and I do love a lively discussion. [:D]  I also refrain from personal attacks simply because I have no need to defend myself and find it a bit silly to act as if I do.  So if something appears to be a little too personal, again, my apologies that the wording did not come across as I intended.

spicey




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