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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 11:46:45 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5
Because there are too many insurance industry lobbyists.





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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 11:52:25 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

This begs the question...

Why are politicians pushing a product that is detrimental to the lives, and health, of US citizens?


Because there are too many insurance industry lobbyists.


Its one of many reasons. Drs are a powerful lobby as well with the AMA. Pharmaceuticals, equipment and supply, hospitals themselves...

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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 12:03:33 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

liberals dont understand the Medicare will not survive as is, period


Oh, I think they get that.

Republicans have seized that, however, as an opportunity to eliminate it through faux "fixes."

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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 12:04:56 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

liberals dont understand the Medicare will not survive as is, period


Oh, I think they get that.

Republicans have seized that, however, as an opportunity to eliminate it through faux "fixes."


Faux in what regard?

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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 12:08:44 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		In all aspects, since the insurance voucher route is not viable, you might consider as far as no fault insurance promises.  And what you got.

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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 12:11:00 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

liberals dont understand the Medicare will not survive as is, period


Oh, I think they get that.

Republicans have seized that, however, as an opportunity to eliminate it through faux "fixes."


Faux in what regard?

In the strict sense of the words. De facto elimination is not the same as fixing.


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 12:18:03 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And as I have stated on prior occasions, all you really get out of it is another republican lie, it necessarily goes off book, because it runs out of budget, emergency appropriations, and it is borrow and spend more, putting us in even deeper shit than now, with everybody just a chuggin along, cuz it aint in the checkbook balance.  Like Iraq in the halcyon days of yore, USPS today, and so on.   

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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 1:41:20 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

This is news? Ryan said it would be used for demagoguery when he announced the budget. Its the Dems favorite card to play. well...it was till Obama was elected.

Demagoguery? You claim to know the insurance industry. How much would it cost a 70 year old to buy health insurance equivalent to present Medicare and how does that cost compare to the Ryan plans voucher?

How about this analysis:
http://strengthensocialsecurity.org/media/blog/2011/republican-medicare-plan-erodes-social-security-benefits-a-new-analysis



Why dont you tell us how much the Ryan plans voucher will be first.

CBO says $8000/year in 2022 (first time they would be issued).
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/121xx/doc12128/04-05-Ryan_Letter.pdf

You can look up health insurance quotes here:
https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/individual-family-health-insurance

Entering data for a 65 year old assumes you have Medicare. Entering data for a healthy 64 year old gets a plan with a $5000 deductible, 20% copay and $328.99 monthly premium. Which works out to $8,947.88 annual out of pocket before it is roughly the same as Medicare. So without any more price inflation Ryan's plan is $947.88 more out of pocket for seniors.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 1:43:23 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

This is news? Ryan said it would be used for demagoguery when he announced the budget. Its the Dems favorite card to play. well...it was till Obama was elected.

Demagoguery? You claim to know the insurance industry. How much would it cost a 70 year old to buy health insurance equivalent to present Medicare and how does that cost compare to the Ryan plans voucher?

How about this analysis:
http://strengthensocialsecurity.org/media/blog/2011/republican-medicare-plan-erodes-social-security-benefits-a-new-analysis



Why dont you tell us how much the Ryan plans voucher will be first.

CBO says $8000/year in 2022 (first time they would be issued).
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/121xx/doc12128/04-05-Ryan_Letter.pdf

You can look up health insurance quotes here:
https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/individual-family-health-insurance

Entering data for a 65 year old assumes you have Medicare. Entering data for a healthy 64 year old gets a plan with a $5000 deductible, 20% copay and $328.99 monthly premium. Which works out to $8,947.88 annual out of pocket before it is roughly the same as Medicare. So without any more price inflation Ryan's plan is $947.88 more out of pocket for seniors.


Interesting that you would take a projected age 65 voucher that equals the projected Medicare subsidy for a 65 year old and then claim there is a shortfall for a 70 year old. Also interesting that the numbers reflect AVERAGE vouchers that do not take into account income subsidies.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 5/28/2011 1:53:53 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 2:03:37 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

This is news? Ryan said it would be used for demagoguery when he announced the budget. Its the Dems favorite card to play. well...it was till Obama was elected.

Demagoguery? You claim to know the insurance industry. How much would it cost a 70 year old to buy health insurance equivalent to present Medicare and how does that cost compare to the Ryan plans voucher?

How about this analysis:
http://strengthensocialsecurity.org/media/blog/2011/republican-medicare-plan-erodes-social-security-benefits-a-new-analysis



Why dont you tell us how much the Ryan plans voucher will be first.

CBO says $8000/year in 2022 (first time they would be issued).
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/121xx/doc12128/04-05-Ryan_Letter.pdf

You can look up health insurance quotes here:
https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/individual-family-health-insurance

Entering data for a 65 year old assumes you have Medicare. Entering data for a healthy 64 year old gets a plan with a $5000 deductible, 20% copay and $328.99 monthly premium. Which works out to $8,947.88 annual out of pocket before it is roughly the same as Medicare. So without any more price inflation Ryan's plan is $947.88 more out of pocket for seniors.


Interesting that you would take a projected age 65 voucher that equals the projected Medicare subsidy for a 65 year old and then claim there is a shortfall for a 70 year old. Also interesting that the numbers reflect AVERAGE vouchers that do not take into account income subsidies.

You do realize that part of Ryan's plan is to increase the age of eligibility by 2 months a year until it reaches 70? That I had to use 64 to get a quote because no one buys regular insurance in the US when they're over 65 they get Medicare and maybe a supplemental? And I said there would be a shortfall for a 65 year old today? Things would only get worse as time goes on since Ryan's plan does nothing to address medical cost inflation but pegs the voucher to the general inflation rate which has averaged much less than the rate of inflation for health care?

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 2:04:46 PM   
ArizonaBossMan


Posts: 380
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		even though the ryan plan clearly does not call for any medicare cuts for seniors. this is what leftists do. Since they have no facts, they lie. And their buddies in the mainstream press go along like bobbing heads.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 2:06:03 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

even though the ryan plan clearly does not call for any medicare cuts for seniors. this is what leftists do. Since they have no facts, they lie. And their buddies in the mainstream press go along like bobbing heads.

Exactly what are you claiming I lied about? I can back up everything from the links provided.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 2:09:57 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I'd be interested to see him cite a few mainstream press leftists who were defending nathalie gaines' right to apologise for the chimp, come to that. Is news International not the mainstream press, despite Murdoch owning most of it?

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 2:18:54 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


You do realize that part of Ryan's plan is to increase the age of eligibility by 2 months a year until it reaches 70? Yes, I do. Do you realize that by the time it does reach age 70 average retirement age is projected to rise in lock step?

That I had to use 64 to get a quote because no one buys regular insurance in the US when they're over 65 they get Medicare and maybe a supplemental? shocking that you couldnt get a medicare quote for an age that medicare doesnt cover and vice versa



And I said there would be a shortfall for a 65 year old today? no you claimed there would be a shortfall for 70 year olds and the proceeded to use age 65 average premiums




Things would only get worse as time goes on since Ryan's plan does nothing to address medical cost inflation but pegs the voucher to the general inflation rate which has averaged much less than the rate of inflation for health care?

how the fuck do you expect to save Medicare? You either cut real costs (which the CBO doesnt address with static projections) or you project government increases less than those costs. It isnt rocket science. Cut government costs or the entire system goes bankrupt.





< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 5/28/2011 2:21:56 PM >

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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 3:14:55 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

Entering data for a healthy 64 year old gets a plan with a $5000 deductible, 20% copay and $328.99 monthly premium. Which works out to $8,947.88 annual out of pocket before it is roughly the same as Medicare. So without any more price inflation Ryan's plan is $947.88 more out of pocket for seniors.


I'd be interested in knowing what the Lifetime Max Benefit is on that plan... How fast does it take someone to accrue a million dollars worth of use, and what happens to them when they do?

Vermont solved all this already, by the way.

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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 4:34:38 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

liberals dont understand the Medicare will not survive as is, period


Oh, I think they get that.

Republicans have seized that, however, as an opportunity to eliminate it through faux "fixes."


Faux in what regard?

In the strict sense of the words. De facto elimination is not the same as fixing.




Then we obviously disagree on the intent.

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 4:37:55 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Entering data for a healthy 64 year old gets a plan with a $5000 deductible, 20% copay and $328.99 monthly premium. Which works out to $8,947.88 annual out of pocket before it is roughly the same as Medicare. So without any more price inflation Ryan's plan is $947.88 more out of pocket for seniors.


I'd be interested in knowing what the Lifetime Max Benefit is on that plan... How fast does it take someone to accrue a million dollars worth of use, and what happens to them when they do?

Vermont solved all this already, by the way.


Then you might be interested to know that there are no lifetime maximum benefits permitted, and havent been for over a year. It was one of the reasons for double digit increases in premiums directly due to Obamacare.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 5/28/2011 4:40:05 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 4:50:12 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


You do realize that part of Ryan's plan is to increase the age of eligibility by 2 months a year until it reaches 70? Yes, I do. Do you realize that by the time it does reach age 70 average retirement age is projected to rise in lock step?

so?

quote:

That I had to use 64 to get a quote because no one buys regular insurance in the US when they're over 65 they get Medicare and maybe a supplemental? shocking that you couldnt get a medicare quote for an age that medicare doesnt cover and vice versa

How exactly would you go about getting a price for a plan that doesn't yet exist? I simply got the closest possible pla and it was more expensive than Ryan's voucher already.

quote:

And I said there would be a shortfall for a 65 year old today? no you claimed there would be a shortfall for 70 year olds and the proceeded to use age 65 average premiums

Do you think premiums would be lower for a 70 year old? I'd like to see you back that BS up.

quote:

Things would only get worse as time goes on since Ryan's plan does nothing to address medical cost inflation but pegs the voucher to the general inflation rate which has averaged much less than the rate of inflation for health care?

how the fuck do you expect to save Medicare? You either cut real costs (which the CBO doesnt address with static projections) or you project government increases less than those costs. It isnt rocket science. Cut government costs or the entire system goes bankrupt.

Actually we already now how to save Medicare. First allow Medicare to negotiate prices. The law requires that Medicare part A pay the "prevailing" price which is always higher than what the largest group plan in the US should be paying. Part B should dump the SGR formula and simply peg cost increases to the CPI.

Second some very expensive but medically dubious items, scooters for instance, could be dropped from coverage.

Third make the HI payroll tax progressive instead of a flat rate.

Fourth eliminate Medicare Advantage completely. It is a major money sink for a very limited benefit.

Fifth cost containment by limiting overutilization of the system. The geographic variances in Medicare spending need to be seriously investigated. McAllen Tx should not be the most expensive place in the world to get health care.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 5:51:01 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Medicare doesnt need to negotiate prices. It dictates most prices. Thats why doctors are dropping out.
Coverages do need to be changed. The question is which ones and when. To really make a dent in costs scooters arent going to do shit. The only place for major savings is end of life care.
Redistributoion of wealth, the liberal solution to everything.
Eliminate Medicare advantage? And who's going to pay for the benefits it covers? Goes under changes in coverage. I also question why its a "major sinkhole".
Overutilization is easily solved. Increase co-pays, which is going to need to be done anyway.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 5:51:57 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Entering data for a healthy 64 year old gets a plan with a $5000 deductible, 20% copay and $328.99 monthly premium. Which works out to $8,947.88 annual out of pocket before it is roughly the same as Medicare. So without any more price inflation Ryan's plan is $947.88 more out of pocket for seniors.


I'd be interested in knowing what the Lifetime Max Benefit is on that plan... How fast does it take someone to accrue a million dollars worth of use, and what happens to them when they do?

Vermont solved all this already, by the way.


Then you might be interested to know that there are no lifetime maximum benefits permitted, and havent been for over a year. It was one of the reasons for double digit increases in premiums directly due to Obamacare.


Then that's a good thing, isn't it? I mean, no-one is in favor of just cutting off people's benefits when they reach arbitrary limits.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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