RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (Full Version)

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HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 10:25:02 AM)

Thanks for your ideas, it's an angle I hadn't considered. Never having really been in the closet (or really out of it) the idea of not wanting to be seen as gay is a hard one for me to wrap my head around. I never made a big deal about being gay, but every body just knew.

As LadyPact mentions in her reply to you, it's a lot easier to be bi or gay if you're a woman. In fact being bi (or at least pretending to be) is pretty much considered a requirement for being popular in school these days.

I never really thought about it before, but there is something to the idea that men (in general) are afraid of being seen as gay. Girls regularly hug, hold hands, cuddle, and so on in a totally non-sexual way, but I honestly don't recall ever seeing men do the same. I gather this is not so in other parts of the world (I think I read somewhere that Arab men often hold hands, can anybody confirm or deny this).

This too brings us back to social conditioning. Sylvere, it seems you nailed it right out of the gate. [:D]



sexyred1 -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 10:35:46 AM)

I like this thread because it really does demonstrate how varied the thinking is among us.

I am always amused by certain posters who infuse every single thread, no matter what the topic is, with their own bitter views on female submissives. Very unimaginative, to say the least.

Making generalizations about either sex or orientation is also fairly stupid.

I would say that whatever style of dominance you prefer, as a woman, man, straight, gay, or bi, is an individual preference and wherever that originated from (from childhood, genetic make up, social conditioning, too much porn, fantasies, etc.) is fine for you.

I don't view any particular physical act as inherently dominant or submissive. Whatever acts we are performing/receiving, we are both experiencing aspects of the other's dominance and submission. We both feel a certain power of our own, and yes, a submissive can feel a sense of power.

I believe it is the exchange of that power, in whatever form that manifests itself in, that makes both partners powerful.

I really don't think I have to elaborate on that for the smart people here.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 10:43:15 AM)

quote:

That's not my observation. My observation is that a fair breadth of BDSM people think in terms of "acts" and so for them, acts become dominant and submissive. I haven't noticed any big differences between men and women.
Again, I only really have these boards to go by, and the difference is marked on here. Its interesting how each person's experience colours their perception of those in the "scene".

My personal take on your reply is that its your relationship that colours your view of others. I get the impression that you do not focus terribly much on the significance of individual acts, or engage in all that many very "out there" acts, and this makes everybody else seem much more focused on them. Does that make sense to you, or sound right?



RedMagic1 -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 10:45:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

My gosh, that's a nice way to start the day Awareness, to be told that I'm a naive little twit who will one day wake up and realize that I was faking being a lesbian all along. Thanks so much.

As far as your answer, well saying some acts are dominant and others submissive because penetrative sex is dominant doesn't answer the question. You are clearly in the "Action" school of dominance, why do you think that all penetrative sex is dominant?

Also if any penetrative sex is dominant, then would I be dominant if I fingered a girl, or a guy? Or does it require a penis to be dominant?


FYI, Heather, there are a fair number of radical lesbians who refuse to be penetrated at all, by anything. Not because it is dominant, but because it is "male."



Awareness -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 10:56:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
My gosh, that's a nice way to start the day Awareness, to be told that I'm a naive little twit who will one day wake up and realize that I was faking being a lesbian all along. Thanks so much.
  No, if you're a naive twit it's because you took what I said and somehow applied it to your sexual orientation instead of your mental model of the universe.  There's pretty much a universal aspect of being young which says we all understand the world so much better than everyone else.  We grow out of it eventually and at some point, some of us come to understand that people are not always what we think them to be.

In short, you're young, yes you're naive and you barely have enough life experience to begin to understand a man like me.  You put me in a convenient box but it's simply a short-cut of categorisation you're using because you lack the context to do otherwise.  In time you will discover, for example, that everyone - even the nicest people you meet - has a dark side and that people who seem too good to be true, very often are.

quote:

As far as your answer, well saying some acts are dominant and others submissive because penetrative sex is dominant doesn't answer the question. You are clearly in the "Action" school of dominance, why do you think that all penetrative sex is dominant?
  When two people fuck, the guy penetrates the woman.  The feminists have been harping on this very point for decades.  I suggest you study their dogma.  And it's not all penetrative sex, but you asked about men specifically. 

quote:

Also if any penetrative sex is dominant, then would I be dominant if I fingered a girl, or a guy? Or does it require a penis to be dominant?
  If your intent is to ask questions and learn about viewpoints then do so.  If you simply want to disagree with something on the basis that nothing is universal, then ask someone else.  Dialogue is one thing.  Simply nitpicking an answer to death because you dislike the poster is a waste of time.

There's a big psychological difference between being penetrated by a finger or dildo and being penetrated by a cock which can impregnate you.  Even though in many cases - due to fertility, contraception or otherwise - a woman knows this is not literally true, the primitive aspects of our sexuality don't consider this.  In many ways, we're still quite primitive and the veneer of civilisation makes very little difference to our primal responses.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 10:56:55 AM)

quote:

FYI, Heather, there are a fair number of radical lesbians who refuse to be penetrated at all, by anything. Not because it is dominant, but because it is "male."
Well that sort of ties into LadyPact's reply to Arpig about homophobia in women, but in a twisted round-about sort of way. Heterophobia?[:D]





SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 11:01:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

This too brings us back to social conditioning. Sylvere, it seems you nailed it right out of the gate. [:D]


Before I decided to become a writer, I studied to be a social worker.  I had to take a lot of psychology and sociology classes.  It was fascinating stuff, especially the segments dealing with neuroscience and cultural socialization, and it stuck with me.   I still make a point of hunting up articles on how neuroscience affects personality every so often.  As luck would have it, these are especially useful for my writing.  [;)]



Awareness -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 11:03:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
Heterophobia?[:D]
  Misandry.



leadership527 -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 11:30:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
Again, I only really have these boards to go by, and the difference is marked on here. Its interesting how each person's experience colours their perception of those in the "scene".

Actually I was referring to these boards. There has been a long, long, long laundry list of ways I have been accused of being "not dominant" here on these very boards because of acts. Those sentiments come from men and women both. It's actually become a joke of mine.... "reason #842 I'm not a true dominant".

quote:

My personal take on your reply is that its your relationship that colours your view of others. I get the impression that you do not focus terribly much on the significance of individual acts, or engage in all that many very "out there" acts, and this makes everybody else seem much more focused on them. Does that make sense to you, or sound right?

Nope. Putting this really, really simply, there have been PLENTY of women here on these very boards who have told me things like, "You can't be dominant if you kneel to her, rub her back, get coffee for her, etc.". I don't fit the domly mold very well and I hear about it regularly ~chuckles~. There are also plenty of females on these boards who see it more akin to the way you're describing. I just don't see any significant gender bias.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 11:39:56 AM)

Well thank you again for participating Awareness. It seems you can't deal with disagreement on any level, you interpret any such disagreement as an attack. Let me assure you I am not Hanners, and I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to examine your ideas in the light of my question is all. I haven't insulted you, but you have insulted me, and for no reason. I'll let it pass this time, but I'll thank you not to do that in the future.

quote:

There's pretty much a universal aspect of being young which says we all understand the world so much better than everyone else.
By this measure, I'm very old. I have spent this whole thread asking for input from more experienced people. Altering my position in the light of that input, and doing so openly. So obviously I don't think I understand the world better than anybody else, let alone everybody else.

You, on the other hand post the same basic position on every thread, and ignore or dismiss any any reply that opposes your view. Clearly you do think you understand the world better than everybody else. I hope you appreciate the irony of this, but by your own standard you have a lot of growing up to do.

quote:

You put me in a convenient box but it's simply a short-cut of categorisation you're using because you lack the context to do otherwise.
This could be so, but the impression I get is that the box I put you into is pretty much the same box everybody else puts you in. Now if I were the only one, or even in the minority, then perhaps you might be right that its an error, but since pretty much everybody agrees with my categorization, I'm inclined to think that it is the correct one, especially since so many of those with much more life and lifestyle experience think so as well.

quote:

When two people fuck, the guy penetrates the woman.  The feminists have been harping on this very point for decades.  I suggest you study their dogma.  And it's not all penetrative sex, but you asked about men specifically.
That's very interesting and obvious, but I asked you why YOU think penetrative sex is dominant. What your reply had to do with the question beyond objecting to my use of the word "all" is beyond me.

quote:

If your intent is to ask questions and learn about viewpoints then do so.
I'm pretty sure that's just what I did. My questions are valid ones, asked to get a clearer idea of your position.

quote:

Dialogue is one thing.  Simply nitpicking an answer to death because you dislike the poster is a waste of time.
I don't dislike you, I disagree with you. And I agree that nitpicking things to death is a waste of time. Since you hold that view, why did you spend an entire post doing just that rather than just answering the questions I asked you, and leaving out the nitpicking.

quote:

There's a big psychological difference between being penetrated by a finger or dildo and being penetrated by a cock which can impregnate you.
OK, that's a valid difference. Never having been penetrated by anything that can impregnate me I can't speak to the psychological difference. It does make a certain sense, but I still fail to see how that makes it dominant or submissive in and of itself. One could look at it the other way around, and say the woman is in fact being the dominant one by extracting the seed needed to perpetuate the species from the male. I know you don't agree with that (I don't really myself) but you have to admit that it is a valid way of interpreting the same act, and it reverses the role of dominant and submissive.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 11:45:35 AM)

OK, I wasn't really aware of the history. In my time here it has been almost exclusively men that have made this point.

For what its worth, I'm inclined to agree with you. Hanners rubs my back and my feet often. She likes to bathe me (not that I object), and a lot of other tiny things that I guess some would consider non-dominant. I think the difference is that while she is my Dominant, she is also my lover.



RedMagic1 -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 12:23:55 PM)

I do think there is a gender bias. Women, moreso than men, insist that men be muscular, powerful, uncompromising, own a fast car, be leaders. Men, including accomplished men, would prefer that there be less pressure about this, because it is draining to be "on" 24/7. This leads to a contradiction: men rule the world, but more and more men have failed to launch, as a result of the crumbling economy. So men engage in acts against women, for example the guys who kill their wives after being laid off.

I think every woman who has ever dated me was interested in me because of some kind of power I wielded. "He is so nice," gets you as far as the friend zone, but "he is a bad ass" gets you to the end zone.

A "famous" slave once told me, "It is an open secret that Masters need to be topped sometimes to recharge." She wasn't willing to do that herself. Her owner sometimes went out and scratched that itch. She pretended not to know.

Awareness's position on female dominance suffers from sample bias, but his position on female subs being attracted to male doms is, frankly, obviously true. And yes, the biological imperative is reinforced by a tremendous amount of social conditioning. Sylvere is right also. This isn't either or.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 2:32:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1


I think every woman who has ever dated me was interested in me because of some kind of power I wielded. "He is so nice," gets you as far as the friend zone, but "he is a bad ass" gets you to the end zone.




I dunno about that power thing, I mean nobody wants a wet blanket as a partner, a partner should be a partner and not a child substitute, as I said in the "needy" thread, needy is a turn off, somebody who has goals, who has a life and a vision, somebody who doesn't make me the only reason for their existence, that's sexy.



PeonForHer -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 2:45:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
I do think there is a gender bias. Women, moreso than men, insist that men be muscular, powerful, uncompromising, own a fast car, be leaders.


God, how dismal. That just sounds like the fast track to a heart attack and an early grave, to me.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 2:50:45 PM)

Shoot, I just expect them to be employed and of good character...



tazzygirl -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 2:51:18 PM)

quote:

Nope. Putting this really, really simply, there have been PLENTY of women here on these very boards who have told me things like, "You can't be dominant if you kneel to her, rub her back, get coffee for her, etc.". I don't fit the domly mold very well and I hear about it regularly ~chuckles~. There are also plenty of females on these boards who see it more akin to the way you're describing. I just don't see any significant gender bias.


This I never understood. Its dominant if its what YOU decide YOU want to do. Its submissive if YOU decide to do what I demand you to do.

At least thats my take on it all.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 2:55:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Nope. Putting this really, really simply, there have been PLENTY of women here on these very boards who have told me things like, "You can't be dominant if you kneel to her, rub her back, get coffee for her, etc.". I don't fit the domly mold very well and I hear about it regularly ~chuckles~. There are also plenty of females on these boards who see it more akin to the way you're describing. I just don't see any significant gender bias.


This I never understood. Its dominant if its what YOU decide YOU want to do. Its submissive if YOU decide to do what I demand you to do.

At least thats my take on it all.


I'm with you, additionally having manners and behaving like a gent is not submissive, it's just showing that you're a nice person and your parents taught you manners.



PeonForHer -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 3:23:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Shoot, I just expect them to be employed and of good character...


Right, well I'm halfway to home base, then. ;-)



LadyConstanze -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 3:42:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Shoot, I just expect them to be employed and of good character...


Right, well I'm halfway to home base, then. ;-)


Oh you got a job [:D]



tazzygirl -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/29/2011 3:43:28 PM)

OUCH! LOL



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