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Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 5/29/2011 3:54:01 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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Status: offline 		http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

It's all self explanatory.

We Can't Make It Here Anymore

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 5/29/2011 2:10:51 PM   
submittous


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/12/2004
Status: offline 		The accumulation of wealth into the aristocracy of top 2% of the country is the underlying cause of virtually all of the economic problems in the US. Because they also own the government that makes the rules hardly anything bad that is happening financially can't be traced to the greed and desires of our royalty. It is amazing to me that so few people really know what's happened and continues to be going on.

I think it is beyond just taxing the income of the aristocracy, it's time to tax the wealth that they have and/or control. The reason is more than the accumulation of wealth it is that with that happening we get all of the opportunity funneled into those same people and it turns out they aren't all that creative except in making up schemes to make more money without making some product or service.

There is a great line in HBO's movie To Big To Fail.... one of the CEO's says "They won't bail out people whose only job is making money", but it turned out if your job is making money for the people who own the government they WILL bail you out. And few Americans even know what happened much less are outraged about it. Amazing.

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 5/29/2011 2:56:06 PM   
Fellow


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quote:

I think it is beyond just taxing the income of the aristocracy, it's time to tax the wealth that they have and/or control.


Wrong idea. It would just accelerate the economic collapse. Only tax policy wouldn't fix much, if anything. The whole economy needs to be restructured.  It is not likely to happen though. The good news is: very soon foreign producers will not take paper (US Treasury bonds and Federal Reserve notes) for goods and the US needs to restore the production.

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 5/29/2011 4:24:12 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Yuo know you just invited Mm in here to call you an idiot.

But you are right and it might be a surprise to him. You see the sheeple who keep playing the game now have to keep their money in the game so the bigboys don't lose theirs. That's how it works.

You see, for quite a few years now the money is going somewhere and most people think it's a natural thing. It is not. When people find out where this money is really going it is going to be 300 million against 300 thousand. Who do you think will win at 1,000 : 1 odds ? That's why they have to keep the sheeple stupid, and take away the guns as well. If I thought you wanted to shoot me, the first thing I would want to do is to take your guns away. And they know they have it coming.

Some of us have known this for decades. Actully RealO knows this, he just doesn't express it right. No court is going to fix this. There are no options on the ballot that could fix this. There never will be and that's that. There is noone in any real position of power who could, or would even want to fix this because they are the fucking problem, the parasite, the leech.

Ask a US vet back from Iraq what it cost to get a load of clothes washed. And they couldn't share loads. Nope. These suits won't even do things for people who will and have put their lives on the line to enrichen their rich friends, what do you think they think of us ?

Less than nothing.

T^T

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 5/29/2011 4:31:51 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
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quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

The accumulation of wealth into the aristocracy of top 2% of the country is the underlying cause of virtually all of the economic problems in the US. Because they also own the government that makes the rules hardly anything bad that is happening financially can't be traced to the greed and desires of our royalty. It is amazing to me that so few people really know what's happened and continues to be going on.

I think it is beyond just taxing the income of the aristocracy, it's time to tax the wealth that they have and/or control. The reason is more than the accumulation of wealth it is that with that happening we get all of the opportunity funneled into those same people and it turns out they aren't all that creative except in making up schemes to make more money without making some product or service.

There is a great line in HBO's movie To Big To Fail.... one of the CEO's says "They won't bail out people whose only job is making money", but it turned out if your job is making money for the people who own the government they WILL bail you out. And few Americans even know what happened much less are outraged about it. Amazing.



What's amazing to me is that so few people grasp that the problem is systemic. Almost everyone wants to tweak-left, tweak-right, or put a band-aid on this outdated and inherently corrupt system to stop the hemmoraging.

If I were in that top 2% with a maintain-the-status-quo mindset, I'd be laughing my ass off from watching the peons play the blame game while worshiping the very system that enslaves them.

(in reply to submittous)
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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/1/2011 8:14:11 PM   
Anarrus


Posts: 475
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		I'm amazed this topic only got 4 posts.
Is just that no one really gives a shit anymore..about anything that's important?..and what's happened and continues to happen to our nation at the hands of the corporate and financial cocksuckers and douche-bags (in fairness not all of them are) should be seen as pretty damn important.

Anyway, for those who are interested there's this from someone who has impeccable credentials and cites others with impeccable credentials in his speech:

http://www.wbur.org/media-player?url=http://worldofideas.wbur.org/2010/12/12/moyers-zinn-memorial&title=Bill+Moyers+%26%238211%3B+2010+Howard+Zinn+Memorial+Lecture&pubdate=2010-12-12&segment=&source=worldofideas




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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/1/2011 10:17:18 PM   
Kirata


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Thanks ...powerful presentation.

K.

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 12:18:29 AM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		This is not a purely US phenomenon. The same trends are evident here in Australia over the past few decades. The mega-rich get even richer and ever more powerful. The rest of us pay for their excess as we slip further and further into powerlessness and poverty. I'm confident these figures will be replicated in Europe too.

We might note some other common features: the dominance of 'free market' economics, the decline in membership and power of the union movement, a general shift in politics to the right, a massive increase in personal debt as ordinary people struggle to maintain their living standards, deregulation of banking and financial services, the popularity of 'privatising' publicly owned services (usually for a lot less than their market value) the globalisation of capital flows and markets...... need I go on?

Current policies pursued in the West are not about boosting the 'economy', or creating jobs for all, or any of the usual BS trotted out for public consumption. They are all about the naked greed and avarice of the mega-rich at the expense of the rest of us. The figures and graphs HK provided illustrate that beyond all doubt.

This is class warfare in its most brutal and ruthless form.

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 8:57:36 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

I'm amazed this topic only got 4 posts.


Sorry, I was dealing with a tornado warning situation and two kids.
Bill Moyers NAILED it
BUR is a GREAT example of independent journalism and the BU SPC is possibly the best school of it's kind in America. And I am a regular listener.


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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 9:34:36 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

This is not a purely US phenomenon. The same trends are evident here in Australia over the past few decades. The mega-rich get even richer and ever more powerful. The rest of us pay for their excess as we slip further and further into powerlessness and poverty. I'm confident these figures will be replicated in Europe too.


Tweak, I don't think anybody thinks that it's JUST an American thing at all. But Moyers' was speaking to Americans because THEY are his audience. And I think it concerns him most that people wake the hell up. But you can't just say "West" in this one. It's endemic in the middle East, it's endemic in Russia and it's satellites it's endemic in Japan and yup, Australia. Bout the only fuckers who can be counted out of this mess is Tibetans and some penguins down in the south pole.


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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 9:46:59 AM   
SternSkipper


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Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

Yuo know you just invited Mm in here to call you an idiot.
But you are right and it might be a surprise to him. You see the sheeple who keep playing the game now have to keep their money in the game so the bigboys don't lose theirs. That's how it works.


Trust me, if taxation WASN'T a HUGE issue to the boys at the top, they would quietly take the hit.
   But it, (making them pay their fair share) is like the proverbial "what do you call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea?" A GOOD START

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 11:32:24 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This is not a purely US phenomenon. The same trends are evident here in Australia over the past few decades. The mega-rich get even richer and ever more powerful. The rest of us pay for their excess as we slip further and further into powerlessness and poverty.



Too bad you dont understand economics nor do you avoid false dichotomies.

As that famous Republican said...A rising tide lifts all boats. That is far more important than whether that tide allows the ones who created the rising tide a bigger boat.

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 11:40:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Talk about your false dichotomies, and lack of knowledge and understanding.

This rubbish is dismissed in the headlines, intellectually dishonest and downright reprehensible. Waterboarding from the rightists.

Big Oil, Insurance et al.  Record profits.
Economy and the workers, dead in the water, or drowning.




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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 11:52:35 AM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

It's all self explanatory.

We Can't Make It Here Anymore



America has been a plutocracy for some time now. That aside, the only way to avoid the impending downfall of the United States is to put more people back to work and thus increase government revenues, which can in turn help subsidize the growth we need; the gravy train from taxing the wealthy isn't going to solve our problems, though that's a popular idea spurned on by class warfare. If we don't get on track with our country, we will continue to fall behind in the world economy. It's really as simple as that. Protectionism isn't the answer in a world market, but American companies who employ legions of manufacturing workers overseas have much to answer for.

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 12:12:12 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

It's all self explanatory.

We Can't Make It Here Anymore



America has been a plutocracy for some time now. That aside, the only way to avoid the impending downfall of the United States is to put more people back to work and thus increase government revenues, which can in turn help subsidize the growth we need; the gravy train from taxing the wealthy isn't going to solve our problems, though that's a popular idea spurned on by class warfare. If we don't get on track with our country, we will continue to fall behind in the world economy. It's really as simple as that. Protectionism isn't the answer in a world market, but American companies who employ legions of manufacturing workers overseas have much to answer for.


The government that sets policies that make employing legions of manufacturing workers overseas so much more profitable have everything to answer for.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 12:15:58 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, they should make corporations illegal.  Bad fuckin idea legalizing them.

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 12:26:04 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

America has been a plutocracy for some time now. That aside, the only way to avoid the impending downfall of the United States is to put more people back to work and thus increase government revenues, which can in turn help subsidize the growth we need; the gravy train from taxing the wealthy isn't going to solve our problems, though that's a popular idea spurned on by class warfare. If we don't get on track with our country, we will continue to fall behind in the world economy. It's really as simple as that. Protectionism isn't the answer in a world market, but American companies who employ legions of manufacturing workers overseas have much to answer for.


The government that sets policies that make employing legions of manufacturing workers overseas so much more profitable have everything to answer for.


Care to expound? I have no doubt your point of view will have some merit, but I've always felt the larger culprit behind tax evasion and offshoring is simple opportunism and greed in the bigger, faster, stronger, cheaper capitalist game.


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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 12:26:05 PM   
EternalHoH


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


As that famous Republican said...A rising tide lifts all boats.




You know, I didn't see many middle class 'boats' being lifted in those graphs.

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 12:30:05 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
As that famous Republican said...A rising tide lifts all boats.

You know, I didn't see many middle class 'boats' being lifted in those graphs.


I agree. Median income hasn't risen much since 1988, according to this article, though I doubt we need a chart to illustrate something we know and feel everyday.

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RE: Plutocracy Now! or It's the Inequality, stupid! - 6/2/2011 12:35:25 PM   
EternalHoH


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The government that sets policies that make employing legions of manufacturing workers overseas so much more profitable have everything to answer for.



That is true.

But which class of society spends the most to elect the people who makes these decisions?

Figure it out yet?

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