RE: Punishment and Disipline

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MarcEsadrian -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 10:50:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Contentment I'm reading many profiles of different submissive people (mostly women, as I'm straight, but I have read a few others). I keep getting stuck on the terms of "punishment" or "discipline" in regards to treatment of themselves. Many of the profiles seem to suggest that this treatment is what they want, which, to my understanding, defeats the whole point of calling it by either name. I don't object to just torturing a person for my own amusement, but calling it a "punishment" or "discipline" strikes me as misuse of the words. Those words are reserved for things they don't want and in response to things they did wrong. Punishments must suit the crime and discipline must correct the mistake. I think the concept of "funishment" is well described, if not easy to intuit by the word alone, so I won't address that dynamic going on in many of the personalities you've likely read from. I will instead address your questions with a simple truth, however, that desiring discipline does not invalidate it. The wise know discipline does not make life harder, but more rewarding, in the end, and so it makes perfect sense on the most basic philosophic level to want discipline. As for the want of punishment, this goes in hand with the appreciation of discipline. In the ordinary humdrum world, you may hear a woman proclaim in confidence that, "he just doesn't seem to care about what I do! I can walk all over him, be a complete, out of control bitch, and he doesn't call me on my bullshit. He's such a...well, pussy. I wish he had the balls to stand up to me and call me on these things. I wish he would put me in my place when I need it. I trust that, and feel safer with a man who can do that, who has the confidence to show me what he wants and also help me see myself." Such a sentiment doesn't nearly reach the scope of "Master and slave", but it does outline a real-world example (and yes, I've actually has this discussion more than once) that discipline and consequences to negative behavior are desirable by people, even in "normal" relationships. I do not wish to perpetuate the in vogue idea that D/s should be viewed as nothing more than a route to self-serving personal improvement, rather that the appreciation for the security of structured causality is without a doubt a key component when you go beyond the fun and games.

mummyman321 -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 12:59:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze For some odd reason I am now thinking of applying a vicious deep heat on you, then saran wrapping you until you're completely mummyfied and then play a bit with ice cubes, warm water, maybe a hair dryer... Are you visiting the states any time soon? Now I am going to have to figure if I can re-route my trip home from Germany through the UK? Can I ask you to pick me up at the airport. I promise to howl extra loud for you :)

LadyConstanze -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 1:04:55 PM)
Well, you see 4 years ago I lived in Germany [:D] But you'd be disappointed, while I can handle latex, I can't wear it because me scratching my skin off is kinda counterproductive during play time. Btw where in Germany are you going to be? I'm a bit out of touch with the ladies there but had some friends who were latex fanatics.

PeonForHer -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 1:10:10 PM)
FR I always turn up on threads about punishment in search of sausage-inducing material and hoping that you experienced types will provide it. But you never do. Poor show. :-(

mummyman321 -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 1:12:00 PM)
LC, I am perfectly happy with the saran wrap LOL I am currently in Colonge and hope to come back home next week. I will be returning in late summer and maybe there anywhere from 3 weeks to 6 months. I do travel to Manchester England occasionally. Only about once a year though.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 1:22:11 PM)
Oh do pop over to Duesseldorf, have a glass of alt at the "Uerige" fantastic place, I miss Bolker Strasse... Though I have to admit that Cologne is a bit cooler than glitzy Duesseldorf, but I spent a great time in both places... Definitely give me a shout if you're coming this way, you now make me regret that I left the industrial sized saran wrap in Germany, for some odd reason I just didn't want to explain huge rolls of various coloured saran wrap to the moving company, I was thinking of ways to get rid of them as they were too big to fit into the recycling containers and then just took a few rolls to a fetish party, wrapped somebody up in it and played a bit, when somebody asked me where I got it from, I offered it to him on the condition that he'd pick it up from my place - the only problem was he came with a regular car and wasn't prepared for roughly 80 rolls of the stuff - he did several trips [:D]

mummyman321 -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 1:32:19 PM)
80 rolls! Oh my, I think I am in love! I have been meaning to pop over Duesseldorf. I have been told that is a better party city than Colonge (from my co-works in Colonge). Unfortunately my travels are typically all work and no play. If the company is going pay for tha plane ticket and the hotel, they want me working, not playing. So the days end up being 14 to 16 hours long. Which is against German law, but since I am not a German citizen, the company does not enforce the law. I will make it a point to check it out next trip. They have to give me a day off after 10 days! I will definitely give you a shout on my next trip to England. I would be happy just meeting for a nice dinner and a bottle of wine :)

LadyConstanze -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 1:53:10 PM)
I'll be seriously cross if you don't, you're more than welcome to stay in the guest room and shall give you a shout on the other side!

DesFIP -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 2:19:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: uncertainlyizzy I'm the same way with anxiety. Knowing exactly what's expected and knowing what will happen if those expectations are not met is very comforting. There's a stability in it. It's something that I really need in a relationship. Most people in my life just lash out randomly for different reasons and triggers and in different ways. I rarely know what I've done wrong or if it's even me or what to expect when I make even the slightest missteps. Having someone who has concrete expectations and consistent reactions is a blessing for me. I don't propose to go over the fence so there isn't any need for punishment here. If I'm late because the car broke down, that's an accident and not something that would garner punishment. I don't need a threat, I just need to know where it's safe. But for me discipline does not involve punishment or funishment. When you learn martial arts you learn a discipline which helps you be more disciplined in the future. I'm using the word in the ways that make sense to me, a training which will help me be more organized and in control. Nothing that requires punishment there. As far as consequences, well if you don't practice you don't get where you want to be. And that's consequence enough for me.

PeonForHer -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 3:03:35 PM)
FR One thing that makes me unbelievably horny is the idea of one person getting to punish the other for not fitting in with his/her rules. (The punishee, of course, being myself.) I don't like this distinction between punishment and 'funishment'. I want all you experienced D/s bods to theorise, then sketch out, the character of a dynamic that gets rid of that distinction for me. Get to it, and make it snappy. NB: I tend to favour people who bring me solutions, not problems.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 3:05:56 PM)
Shut up and bend over, you're so going to get it! Hope you enjoy, if you don't - tough shit... Something like that?

PeonForHer -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 3:14:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Shut up and bend over, you're so going to get it! Hope you enjoy, if you don't - tough shit... Something like that? Yep - that's not a bad start. But, ideally, you've got to have some reason for my having deserved the punishment. It can be a really small, selfish and trivial reason, and you can enjoy giving the punishment as much as you like, but there's got to be a reason. I'm not a pain-slut. If I know that I'm going to get hurt for doing something wrong, I'll try not to do that thing wrong. Yet I want to live in a certain amount of anxiety that I'll be hurt, because that's what turns me on. So you've got to suss out the sorts of things I'll unwittingly tend to get wrong. What could be clearer than that? Come along, you dominants, don't keep me waiting.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 3:16:00 PM)
Peon, you are YOU, what other reason do I need to punish you?

PeonForHer -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 3:19:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Peon, you are YOU, what other reason do I need to punish you? See, now, Lady C - that comment was just inspired. [:D]

DesFIP -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 6:18:32 PM)
The reason for it being clearly explained as funishment instead of a true punishment is so you aren't driven crazy by the rules changing every day to give him/her an excuse to punish you. You want funishment, then it's easy to have a reason but still know it's just for fun. Be ordered to have it be a sunny day, then when it's cloudy you can be funished without any guilt. Be ordered to buy a winning lottery ticket. Stuff like that where it's obvious it's impossible for you to do it.

PeonForHer -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 6:28:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP The reason for it being clearly explained as funishment instead of a true punishment is so you aren't driven crazy by the rules changing every day to give him/her an excuse to punish you. You want funishment, then it's easy to have a reason but still know it's just for fun. Be ordered to have it be a sunny day, then when it's cloudy you can be funished without any guilt. Be ordered to buy a winning lottery ticket. Stuff like that where it's obvious it's impossible for you to do it. Ok, I get that . . . but I still want to be driven slightly crazy every day by the rules changing somewhat arbitrarily. I want weirdness and irrationality in my life.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 6:32:43 PM)
Oh, so I have a chance after all! :)

leadership527 -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (5/31/2011 9:50:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I'm not a pain-slut. If I know that I'm going to get hurt for doing something wrong, I'll try not to do that thing wrong. Yet I want to live in a certain amount of anxiety that I'll be hurt, because that's what turns me on. So you've got to suss out the sorts of things I'll unwittingly tend to get wrong. What could be clearer than that? Come along, you dominants, don't keep me waiting. You get rid of the funishment by avoiding role play. You ensure punishment by making an arbitrarily complex set of rules and/or changing them at random intervals. It's not all that hard to make an no-win situation. Heck, I spend a lot of time ensuring that very situation doesn't happen. Seems to me that if I just didn't bother and uttered every rule that bubbled to the top of my brain we'd already have about 2 billion rules. Then all I'd have to do is wait till some infraction from some rule distantly remembered from that one day when we....

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (6/1/2011 4:43:28 AM)
Is it really punishment is always a question in D/s, bdsm relationships. I have a girl who likes to be whipped so I've dealt with the problem. I've done it two different ways. The first time she misbehaved to the level where she needed to be punished, I gave her 20 lashes with a cane. She was used to taking 6 pops everytime I saw her and that excited her, but 20 hard ones was a stretch. She laid there for all of them without moving and did feel it as pain and punishment because I had told her that's what it was for. But she also later told me the whole idea excited her and she could do it again. Ha, there went the punishment idea. As I learned her better over time, I decided the way I could "hurt" her more was by withholding play, whippings, etc. I had her over my lap nude and would only touch her ass with the slapper, crop, cane, paddle and flogger while reminding her she wouldn't be feeling these things in use for awhile. I then got up and left her there. She said that hurt more than anything I'd done to her and she kept thinking I would come back that day. I didn't and it was a lesson learned by her.

SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Punishment and Disipline (6/9/2011 12:10:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer It can be a really small, selfish and trivial reason, and you can enjoy giving the punishment as much as you like, but there's got to be a reason. I'm not a pain-slut. If I know that I'm going to get hurt for doing something wrong, I'll try not to do that thing wrong. Yet I want to live in a certain amount of anxiety that I'll be hurt, because that's what turns me on. So you've got to suss out the sorts of things I'll unwittingly tend to get wrong. What could be clearer than that? Come along, you dominants, don't keep me waiting. I tell my someone when we're in a relationship, all the time, there will be times I'll be wrong, and will admit it, maybe even apologize. However, If a punishment is to be delivered, it has to be the sub/slave enduring it for me, since we don't punish me, the ruler. M And... quote: LadyConstanze Peon, you are YOU, what other reason do I need to punish you? [:D]

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