RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse?

RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (Full Version)

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jennileigh8182 -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 3:32:18 AM)
hon, I mentioned in my post above that when I left abusive relationships, it took me a long time to heal. In truth, I think I got involved in the one BECAUSE I didn't heal from the prior one, or I don't think I'd have had two in a row. Take some time. Don't rush into another relationship. Take time to figure out who YOU are and to find yourself again. You'll be lonely, you'll want that connection, the dominance, and if you must, find a friend you trust and keep it casual. Trust me, you have to let yourself heal and come back to who you are. I tried rushing into yet another relationship after these two bad ones, this time with a great Dominant...and I put him through hell. I was so panicky, needy, insecure from the previous two that I think I had to have driven him nuts. He was good to me, highlighting my positives, refusing ot see negatives, helping me build myself back up...but I couldn't let him do that for me. I couldn't just believe him. I had to find that within myself. We would fall out of contact here and there, but by some miracle of patience or affection he keeps coming back, checking on me, still interested in me. And now, over two years after leaving my ex, I finally feel stable in myself and can relate to this new potential relationship on a steadier level.

kalikshama -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 4:43:18 AM)
quote: And, I don't know what to do... do I warn people in the community? He is already not well liked... I just feel a bit... scared now... The person you should be scared of is you - why did you stay in a relationship that was so bad for so long and how are you going to prevent this from happening again? You make a good case that he was mean to you, which does not rise to the level of needing to warn others. If an acquaintance was considering getting involved with him, by all means share your experience, but from what you have shared there is no need to be proactive. Additionally, it is against the collarme/collarchat TOS to "blacklist" others. I know he was an important person in your life and I'm sorry it didn't work out. Move on. Throw yourself into your studies. Exercise. Do volunteer work. Learn about healthy boundaries and repetition compulsion before you get into another relationship. "Was he abusive?" is not the question you should be asking yourself. I suggest "how do I learn from this?" and "how do I move on?" and "why do I think it is better to be in a bad relationship than no relationship?"

uncertainlyizzy -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 4:54:54 AM)
EDIT: Ignore me. Didn't notice it was M/s and that wasn't what I posted about. Sorry.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 5:09:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama The person you should be scared of is you - why did you stay in a relationship that was so bad for so long and how are you going to prevent this from happening again? You make a good case that he was mean to you, which does not rise to the level of needing to warn others. If an acquaintance was considering getting involved with him, by all means share your experience, but from what you have shared there is no need to be proactive. Additionally, it is against the collarme/collarchat TOS to "blacklist" others. I know he was an important person in your life and I'm sorry it didn't work out. Move on. Throw yourself into your studies. Exercise. Do volunteer work. Learn about healthy boundaries and repetition compulsion before you get into another relationship. "Was he abusive?" is not the question you should be asking yourself. I suggest "how do I learn from this?" and "how do I move on?" and "why do I think it is better to be in a bad relationship than no relationship?" Agreed. It was a relationship that didn't work, it really doesn't matter how you wish to classify it.. You try to move on and learn from it. And if you don't take time to heal, you will repeat your mistakes in the next relationship. Along with kali's most excellent advice, please take some time to learn about reciprocal levels of commitment. In other words, don't make someone a priority when you are merely an option. Best of luck.

lilmisssubmiss -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 12:40:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: And, I don't know what to do... do I warn people in the community? He is already not well liked... I just feel a bit... scared now... The person you should be scared of is you - why did you stay in a relationship that was so bad for so long and how are you going to prevent this from happening again? You make a good case that he was mean to you, which does not rise to the level of needing to warn others. If an acquaintance was considering getting involved with him, by all means share your experience, but from what you have shared there is no need to be proactive. Additionally, it is against the collarme/collarchat TOS to "blacklist" others. I know he was an important person in your life and I'm sorry it didn't work out. Move on. Throw yourself into your studies. Exercise. Do volunteer work. Learn about healthy boundaries and repetition compulsion before you get into another relationship. "Was he abusive?" is not the question you should be asking yourself. I suggest "how do I learn from this?" and "how do I move on?" and "why do I think it is better to be in a bad relationship than no relationship?" uhhhhh....i was talking about actual community since he did emotionally abuse me and physically abuse other people....in real life... they look down upon that. Nor did i tell you everything. And yes it was emotional abuse he tore me dwon so much i didn't know right from left anymore. He made me feel like shit about myself, he ruined me. He wanted me unstable he played on my insecurities made me feel like shit and threatened things all the time. Not to mention he isolated me. telling my to not have contact with my father or my friends. i've never felt so alone.. if i tried to go to him he punished me. He always undermined me... i felt like an idiot. i wasn't even sure i was smart enough to live that's how much doubt he put into me.. and he LOVED it. Tell me that's all ok??? That's JUST mean? i don't live online. i was talking about in real life the kink community already didn't like him. i gave him some credibility. i have a hard time not speaking out against what is right. Why did i stay? Because i am 20 for goodness sakes. Met him when i was 18 ...sorry i was not smart enough to outsmart a 51 year old master manipulator right away. So why i should i be scared of myself? I should be proud of myself and instead of letting myself look down upon myself so much... for once in my life for a long time i have to see the positive because there is a lot of positive. to be honest i give myself a lot of credit that after he really pulled shit and i was deep in his grasp i still found strength within me to end the relationship. He never saw that happening neither did i. Ya i have learned the warning signs of an emotional abuser. Why exactly do you have the mentality of blaming the victim? SORRY but i put so much guilt on myself over this.... and then i thought.. wow wait... i actually was the victim here. I have to give myself a break and just become smarter for the future. Thanks. But, not going to let someone talk down to me because it took a lot for me to get out of the relationship. It was my first for everything including first real and long relationship... it was A LOT to learn. Usually people who are in so deep don't leave for years and years. Why? because at the same time... the abuser hurts you .. you feel like you can't live without them. They control everything now...it's pure brainwash. Does it scare me that happened? Yes. but i had NO idea.

lilmisssubmiss -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 12:41:39 PM)
Anyways, my whole thing was i didn't want to get into M/s relationship if they are all those kind of mind games???? Emotional abuse? AS i don't view that healthy. i know how to move on and am doing that. i just wanted to know peoples opinions about the lines between abuse and M/s

a1111 -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 12:42:19 PM)
What are the hints and signs? Thanks quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantMan Pure and simple... M/s is about consideration. You will NEVER abuse that balance, even if you're "abusing" the person at the time. You know, by several hints and signs, when you push things too far, and you step back when you do. Emotional abuse... when you see the hints and signs, you know that you have pushed things too far, but you deliberately keep going. This is when you want to hurt the person before you, not "abuse" the slave on your feet.

a1111 -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 2:08:46 PM)
I was probably brought up in an emotionally abusive house, I've learned about it because of my job and officially any form of control or humiliation is considered emotional abuse, I was told if we don't deal with the issue we feel a need to recreate that abuse to feel the trapped emotion, probably that's why I'm attracted to bdsm, if people we,re more aware perhaps that wouldn't feel the need so much for bdsm as it is unhealthy in my opinion.

RakeAndCo -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 2:37:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetlilcute Where do you draw it? How do you know if it's M/s or emotional abuse? When at any time if it is to end your partner would think they are better off having known you than never having you in their life.

LafayetteLady -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 5:41:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lilmisssubmiss quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: And, I don't know what to do... do I warn people in the community? He is already not well liked... I just feel a bit... scared now... The person you should be scared of is you - why did you stay in a relationship that was so bad for so long and how are you going to prevent this from happening again? You make a good case that he was mean to you, which does not rise to the level of needing to warn others. If an acquaintance was considering getting involved with him, by all means share your experience, but from what you have shared there is no need to be proactive. Additionally, it is against the collarme/collarchat TOS to "blacklist" others. I know he was an important person in your life and I'm sorry it didn't work out. Move on. Throw yourself into your studies. Exercise. Do volunteer work. Learn about healthy boundaries and repetition compulsion before you get into another relationship. "Was he abusive?" is not the question you should be asking yourself. I suggest "how do I learn from this?" and "how do I move on?" and "why do I think it is better to be in a bad relationship than no relationship?" uhhhhh....i was talking about actual community since he did emotionally abuse me and physically abuse other people....in real life... they look down upon that. Nor did i tell you everything. And yes it was emotional abuse he tore me dwon so much i didn't know right from left anymore. He made me feel like shit about myself, he ruined me. He wanted me unstable he played on my insecurities made me feel like shit and threatened things all the time. Not to mention he isolated me. telling my to not have contact with my father or my friends. i've never felt so alone.. if i tried to go to him he punished me. He always undermined me... i felt like an idiot. i wasn't even sure i was smart enough to live that's how much doubt he put into me.. and he LOVED it. Tell me that's all ok??? That's JUST mean? i don't live online. i was talking about in real life the kink community already didn't like him. i gave him some credibility. i have a hard time not speaking out against what is right. Why did i stay? Because i am 20 for goodness sakes. Met him when i was 18 ...sorry i was not smart enough to outsmart a 51 year old master manipulator right away. So why i should i be scared of myself? I should be proud of myself and instead of letting myself look down upon myself so much... for once in my life for a long time i have to see the positive because there is a lot of positive. to be honest i give myself a lot of credit that after he really pulled shit and i was deep in his grasp i still found strength within me to end the relationship. He never saw that happening neither did i. Ya i have learned the warning signs of an emotional abuser. Why exactly do you have the mentality of blaming the victim? SORRY but i put so much guilt on myself over this.... and then i thought.. wow wait... i actually was the victim here. I have to give myself a break and just become smarter for the future. Thanks. But, not going to let someone talk down to me because it took a lot for me to get out of the relationship. It was my first for everything including first real and long relationship... it was A LOT to learn. Usually people who are in so deep don't leave for years and years. Why? because at the same time... the abuser hurts you .. you feel like you can't live without them. They control everything now...it's pure brainwash. Does it scare me that happened? Yes. but i had NO idea. Ok, I'm going to try to be as nice about this as I can. You asked a question and when you didn't like the answers, went a little postal (re-read what you wrote above). First, if you were curious what you should do in the "actual" community, why did you ask us over here in the "fake" community? You can't realistically expect people to take you seriously when you make statements like that. In other words, if you want to ask people a question and expect them to give you an iota of respect, don't shit on them like that. Judging from your current attitude, I'm pretty amazed that you allowed anyone to treat you poorly. You must have learned really fast how not to put up with anything. Second, you were 18 and your first involvement was with a 51 year old man? Sorry kiddo, but you were asking for trouble, and you are a bit deluded if you think at 18, you gave a 51 year old man some credibility. You wanna slam me for my statements, have at it. But a better idea would be to take a much closer look at what everyone here is trying to tell you and to learn from it. Trust me, at 20 years old, you only THINK that you know a lot about life. Very rare are the instances where a 20 year old has the maturity to see much of anything past the end of their own nose. In the future, figure out what made you run to a man almost old enough to be your grandfather, much less your father and look for someone closer to your own age. Why? Because you will find someone who is more in touch with the realities of the 20 somethings.

keechoo -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 8:11:47 PM)
Wait...I'm confused...are sweetlilcute and lilmisssubmiss the same person but within 2 different states (because of college, I'm thinking)? The reason I suggested not telling other people unless his name comes up is because you are giving him the power by talking about him. I know it is hard to believe but there are people out there who will listen to you talk about his faults and then want to go to him for a relationship. Kind of like all the followers Charles Manson has. Do you want to give him that power? I don't think you do. I know where you are coming from, my ex was also my first and I was drawn to him because of his dominant nature though he is vanilla. He basically did brainwash me and all the signs were there from the get go. How do I know? Because I reread my journal from when I first met him up to the divorce. I went through 2 psychariatrists to get as strong as I am today. You have a chance to get away and stay away, you'll never forget him but at the same time you shouldn't be speaking his name. I wish I could take my own advice but we have 2 young kids together, I have no job (stayed-at-home for the kids), and still live with him. I'm back in grad school and looking for a job closer to my family. He moved us two states away from my family and forbids their coming to visit the kids and I. But, I'm stronger than he realizes. He does all these little things, says things to get me upset, calls me crazy, tells the kids I'm crazy and I laugh. I look at him and laugh! It drives hiim nuts and I love it because I took back the power! I take all the negativity he throws at me and turn it into something positive. When my kids tell me he called me crazy, I ask them what I always say about that and they reply "It is more fun to be crazy than normal". And you know what? You are scared of yourself! You are scared you made the wrong decision, you are scared you might go back, you are scared you'll make the same mistake somewhere down the line. It's ok. It's ok to be scared. Admit it! Own it! I'm scared I'll never get the kids and myself out of here. I'm scared my kids will grow up to be like him. I'm scared I won't cut it on my own. But, that's ok. It means I'm human. I learned to trust my instincts and yea, I might have a lapse of judgement now and then but I'll be ok. And you will too!

BonesFromAsh -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 8:18:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lilmisssubmiss Met him when i was 18 ... Is the same man you mention here... http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3561550 ? quote: Maybe its the fact i can't escape it. i signed up for a 6 month contract. He cannot leave me and i cannot leave Him. In fact yesterday i sent Him a whole long email about how i was going to leave. I was DONE. I got emotional about something and just everything combined i decided it was too much ... it was over. His reply was to this long email: "This email is bullshit, slave is unable to break it's contract, to late to get out for 6 months, tough! I have officially deleted this and it will not be discussed again. Got it! Time to put slaves big girl panties on and act like an adult and a slave, let's get going forward. Never write another email like this to Master, crystal clear? And don't respond to this email never want to see these ramblings in any return email. Master and Owner" Did you choose to follow any of the advice you were given then?

0ldhen -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/2/2011 8:27:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imber67 Anything that makes you uneasy or crying afterward is nothing but abuse. Calling wrong on this one, I know lots of subbies or bottoms who love to cry during or after a scene, so that is not a defining moment for some.

angelikaJ -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/3/2011 2:18:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetlilcute Where do you draw it? How do you know if it's M/s or emotional abuse? We can be with a partner who is wrong for us: we have differing expectations and that person is unable to meet our expectations. Is that "emotional abuse"? Is it abusive to be with someone who is unable to meet some of our most basic needs? My answer is yes, but I don't think they are the one's abusing us: We are. Abuse isn't simply not getting what you want in a relationship. Abuse from another infers some active role by the other person; simply being in a relationship that does not fit your needs, wants or desires or meets the level of attention one would wish for wouldn't be abusive. We have a reponsibility to ourselves to choose relationships and partners that we feel fulfilled in and with. Incompatibility does not automatically equal abuse. Emotional abuse usually comtains an element of belittlement. Of making you feel less than. I am not saying you weren't enotionally abused. I am saying that I have not read one instance of emotional abuse as I define it. I am very sorry you have had to grow up so abruptly; you gave your virginity to him and fell in love (not necessarily in that order). It sounds like you may have wanted more than he or they were willing or able to give.

ranja -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/3/2011 3:10:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lilmisssubmiss uhhhhh....i was talking about actual community since he did emotionally abuse me and physically abuse other people....in real life... they look down upon that. Nor did i tell you everything. And yes it was emotional abuse he tore me dwon so much i didn't know right from left anymore. He made me feel like shit about myself, he ruined me. He wanted me unstable he played on my insecurities made me feel like shit and threatened things all the time. Not to mention he isolated me. telling my to not have contact with my father or my friends. i've never felt so alone.. if i tried to go to him he punished me. He always undermined me... i felt like an idiot. i wasn't even sure i was smart enough to live that's how much doubt he put into me.. and he LOVED it. Tell me that's all ok??? That's JUST mean? i don't live online. i was talking about in real life the kink community already didn't like him. i gave him some credibility. i have a hard time not speaking out against what is right. Why did i stay? Because i am 20 for goodness sakes. Met him when i was 18 ...sorry i was not smart enough to outsmart a 51 year old master manipulator right away. So why i should i be scared of myself? I should be proud of myself and instead of letting myself look down upon myself so much... for once in my life for a long time i have to see the positive because there is a lot of positive. to be honest i give myself a lot of credit that after he really pulled shit and i was deep in his grasp i still found strength within me to end the relationship. He never saw that happening neither did i. Ya i have learned the warning signs of an emotional abuser. Why exactly do you have the mentality of blaming the victim? SORRY but i put so much guilt on myself over this.... and then i thought.. wow wait... i actually was the victim here. I have to give myself a break and just become smarter for the future. Thanks. But, not going to let someone talk down to me because it took a lot for me to get out of the relationship. It was my first for everything including first real and long relationship... it was A LOT to learn. Usually people who are in so deep don't leave for years and years. Why? because at the same time... the abuser hurts you .. you feel like you can't live without them. They control everything now...it's pure brainwash. Does it scare me that happened? Yes. but i had NO idea. So you had a thing with an asshole... i have been there too... the good thing is you got out.... be happy about that... move on Take up dancing, it will make you feel better... time will heal you what ever you do never get it on with a jealous insecure tit again!!!! (they are NO fun)

leadership527 -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/3/2011 8:17:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lilmisssubmiss Anyways, my whole thing was i didn't want to get into M/s relationship if they are all those kind of mind games???? Emotional abuse? AS i don't view that healthy. It's really not that fine of a line. Here's how you can tell. If you were to ask Carol how "abused" she was, she'd fall over laughing. I don't know if we are "M/s" or not anymore, but I do tell her what to do and I do directly manipulate her mind. I just don't do it with tricks and games... it's all very upfront and direct. Most importantly though, the net result of whatever it is I'm doing with her puts a smile on her face. Take a look at sunshine's thread on "thriving". You need to find yourself one of us disney doms who get off on having a happy partner and marriage. You can be the spoiled pillow princes. That'd give you a relationship much like Carol's and mine. If you can manage it, it won't be very true, but it'll be very happy.

KnightofMists -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/3/2011 8:53:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 My own opinion? I suspect you know about the time you start asking yourself this question. ditto

DesFIP -> RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? (6/3/2011 2:40:46 PM)
When people get into these relationships, they choose them. They ignore all the warning signs. More than that, we have an unerring ability to walk into a crowded room and pick out the one person who is the worst for us. Anybody who refuses to look at themselves, and accuses everyone who asks her to do so of blaming the victim, is not a person who will choose a healthier next relationship. Blame you? NO. Suggest you own your own responsibility? Damn sure. Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. You may be very young op, but you're not maturing as far as we can see.

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