RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (Full Version)

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tweakabelle -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/10/2011 2:58:35 PM)

Whether there is or isn't a fatal dose of heroin is one thing. More pertinent is that almost all heroin overdoses can be eliminated through injecting under safe conditions.

The Sydney Medically Supervised Injecting Centre or "heroin shooting gallery' has dealt with over half a million injecting episodes in its 10 year existence, and >3,000 overdose incidents. Without a single fatality.

Conclusion: If injected under clinical conditions, there is no reason for heroin to be fatal.



Kirata -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/10/2011 2:59:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Conclusion: If injected under clinical conditions, there is reason for heroin to be fatal.

psssssst [8|]



tweakabelle -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/10/2011 3:01:22 PM)

LOL thanks for bring my error to my attention. Two little letters can make all the difference can't they [:D]



tweakabelle -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/10/2011 3:58:13 PM)

"Someday we’ll wise up. The only true solution to the horrific financial and human costs of the drug war is to end it—to legalize and regulate drugs.

According to Harvard economist Jeffrey Miron, drug legalization would save $77 billion a year. It would free up close to half the nation’s prison cells, reserving them for violent offenders. We would be able to invest substantially more time, money, and imagination in prevention, education, and drug treatment. And, we would make our communities much safer and healthier."
http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/beyond-prisons/drug-warrier-no-more

The author of these words was a cop for 34 years rising to be Seattle's chief of police 1994-2000. His opinion piece is well worth reading in full.

An annual saving to the public purse in the US alone of $77 billion. Before we even begin to calculate the cost in human misery, corruption, disease and deaths. Every country in the world would free up funds pro rata for far more useful productive purposes.

kdsub, surely the $77 billion saved would free enough funds to finance many of health initiatives you have been advocating. Given the current budget difficulties in the US, where else is the money going to come from? We both agree that radical changes in health policy are needed in this area.



cuckoldmepls -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/10/2011 4:05:36 PM)

Yes, this is the democrats answer to all problems. Legalize it and it is no longer a problem. While were at it let's legalize pedophilia, murder, incest, rape, and all other crimes, and then we won't have to pay to imprison them. Wouldn't that be exciting, and it will ruin just as many lives as legalizing drugs would.



cuckoldmepls -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/10/2011 4:14:13 PM)

The really big issue is what effect it will have on the next generation if parents are allowed to openly expose their kids to drugs, encourage them to use them by example, and sometimes even damage their brains in the most important mental development stages of their life. For example can you imagine parents smoking pot in the house, and kids inhaling it all through childhood. It's already a fact that kids are getting more and more stupid each generation.

I know in my area, this is the first year ever they have ever held summer school. That's all I need to know.



tweakabelle -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/10/2011 4:25:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Yes, this is the democrats answer to all problems. Legalize it and it is no longer a problem. While were at it let's legalize pedophilia, murder, incest, rape, and all other crimes, and then we won't have to pay to imprison them. Wouldn't that be exciting, and it will ruin just as many lives as legalizing drugs would.


You omitted to blame the Democrats, drugs and drug addicts for starting World War II, causing Alzheimer's and the ever-rising price of fish in the sub-Saharan region. How could you neglect to mention these proven facts? A tad sloppy of you wouldn't you agree?

Those minor omissions aside, your post was .... how can I put this? .... jaw-dropping.

PS: Did you notice the glazed look in Obama's eyes during his last press conference? Suspicious wasn't it? Previously I've noted his preference for long sleeved shirts. Wearing long sleeves is a common tactic used by junkies to disguise their track marks. Join the dots ......



thompsonx -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/10/2011 6:30:11 PM)

quote:

While were at it let's legalize pedophilia,


I am not in favor of that and I do not know why you are.



thompsonx -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/10/2011 6:31:41 PM)

quote:

I know in my area, this is the first year ever they have ever held summer school. That's all I need to know.


Perhaps that is all you know.



tweakabelle -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/10/2011 7:47:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

I know in my area, this is the first year ever they have ever held summer school. That's all I need to know.


Perhaps that is all you know.

Hey there's no need to exaggerate! [:D]



Termyn8or -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/10/2011 11:03:42 PM)

"Legalize it and it is no longer a problem. While were at it let's legalize pedophilia, murder, incest, rape, and all other crimes"

Don't use the word crime(s) when you obviously don't know what it means.

If you had any understanding of it you would see that a crime must be commited against another, otherwise it is committed against one's self. If that's the case the actor suffers the crime as well as the subsequent consequences. Therefore his fellows have no cause of action against him. It is his responsibility and his problem, stem to stern.

If I kill myself on drugs, not that I will (I prefer a gun), but others have said that if they were diagnosed with an incurable disease and would die soon, they would make it a point to OD. Let them as long as they hurt noone else.

But there is no incurable disease required here. If you consider addiction one you do not understand the problem. The problem is mental in nature, addiction is only a symptom.

That's not my problem nor yours. It is the problem for those so afflicted. If they cannot suffer the trials of life, guess what happens. They die. That is also not our problem.

To be responsible for everyone in the world and make it safe for three years olds even in the control room of a nuclear reactor is not feasible. It is also not feasible to even make a common household safe for unsupervised individuals who are not quite compos mentis. If we have to do that, I give up. And in this case, giving up is actually the right thing to do.

You ever hang with a bad crowd ? Do you now ? If you got rid of a bad crowd, you did that to purify your life. Apply that, and apply personal responsibility to everyone.

I don't want hard drugs, I don't even do coke once a year in any form. But for those who like it, it is not within my authority nor anyone else's to deny them their desire.

Even if it kills them.

If you do not understand that you never will.

T^T



hot4bondage -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/11/2011 7:22:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Yes, this is the democrats answer to all problems. Legalize it and it is no longer a problem. While were at it let's legalize pedophilia, murder, incest, rape, and all other crimes, and then we won't have to pay to imprison them. Wouldn't that be exciting, and it will ruin just as many lives as legalizing drugs would.



"Only a fool would vote for more unconstitutional federal government." If the shoe fits...

Time for a refresher course. In a free society, consenting adults can do whatever they want, as long as it does not infringe on the person or property of another. It's the difference between assisted suicide and murder, sex and rape, jaywalking and impeding traffic, etc. If you can't see the difference between consensual crime and real crime, you are either blinded by emotion or completely ignorant. Maybe I should put it another way. You can own a gun, but you have to be responsible with it. You can read a bible, but you can't follow its command to stone unruly children to death. You can play bingo at your church, but you can't cheat. Does anyone here (at CollarMe, for fuck's sake) not understand or agree with this? By my count there are at least two of you following this thread, so here's yet another perspective. If you are a social conservative, you are the Koolaid man crashing through the tea party's wall. You want less freedom and more government for everyone who is different than you. YOU are just as responsible for turning our great country into a nanny state as anyone who voted for Obama.



Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/11/2011 12:22:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage
YOU are just as responsible for turning our great country into a nanny state as anyone who voted for Obama.

There's a couple of other right leaning posters in this thread you get that vibe from as well...



samboct -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/12/2011 5:52:52 PM)

K-

Enjoyed your posting a few pages back on the racist basis for drug laws- bit of an eye opener.

We don't understand the causes of addiction. Unfortunately- we spend very little undertaking research on addiction- especially compared to the vast sums for incarceration. Furthermore, we've finally got some tools that might help with the job such as fMRI.

Some of the statistics I saw I think in Science over the years was that by their mid 30s- drug use (marijuana) has tapered off several orders of magnitude from the teen years- thus suggesting that as the brain ages, something is changing in marijuana receptors. I think there was a distinct contrast between marijuana and alcohol use by the way- alcohol use does not taper so dramatically. There's some interesting stuff going on here that I don't know of anyone having a handle on. But I haven't looked at it in awhile either.

On a strictly personal note- a few of the domme women around my age I've met in person on these boards prefer marijuana to alcohol. It's actually a bit striking, since most women pushing 50 aren't that interested in pot. I'm wondering if there's some linkage between BDSM and marijuana use in a middle aged population.

On the heroin toxicity debate- - having an LD 50 in primates of 7-8mg/kg would translate to 0.5 grams in a 70 kg human. While this may be a lot of a street drug- there are plenty of drugs like ibuprofen which are sold in 800 mg capsules so the volume isn't really a problem. Melt 0.5 gram of a compound- it won't be hard to inject- it's just not that big a volume. On the other hand- it doesn't sound like 0.5 gram of pure heroin is that easy to come by.

I thought William Burrough's novel "Junky" did a great job of showing what an addicts life could be like if somebody's interested.

And Tweak- enjoyed your posts too. We're on the same page....

kdsub-

One big problem that's not been discussed about mandatory treatment -aside from the lack of legality and constitutionality- and please see A Clockwork Orange if you like the idea of mucking around in people's brains- where do the people trained in successfully treating addicts come from? Because the psychiatric profession hasn't done well at all in terms of dealing with addiction- either drug or alcohol. The people who are effective treating addicts and getting them to either reduce their use or transition to less harmful drugs are other addicts. Same principle as AA.

Sam




kdsub -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/12/2011 6:05:54 PM)

Sam

Mandatory treatment is not illegal…remember these people are breaking the law…I’m all for giving them a choice…prison or treatment.

I’m for new treatment techniques as well…closely look into the European programs and see what is working and what is not then look into ours and see if we can do better. What good alternatives do we have?

Butch



samboct -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/12/2011 6:57:55 PM)

Butch

I think what we should do is the following:

1) Decriminalize drugs- but not the actions of drug addicts. If a drug addict robs a house- he's still a robber.
2) Control the sale. I certainly have no issue with people growing their own weed or poppy seeds to use themselves or with friends. Same as for alcohol- you can make your own booze- just can't sell it.
3) Have a major research initiative into the nature of addiction.
4) Get addicts out of prison where all they do is learn to be criminals.
5) Hire more addicts to do treatment programs- but they have to be voluntary or only come with financial incentives. I have no problem denying welfare to an addict that refuses treatment and winds up on the street (well, actually I do- I can't stand the thought of people living that way.) but providing housing -well, maybe better housing- to addicts in recovery programs.

There- how's that?

Sam



Kirata -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/12/2011 7:03:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Enjoyed your posting a few pages back on the racist basis for drug laws- bit of an eye opener...

Thanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Some of the statistics I saw I think in Science over the years was that by their mid 30s- drug use (marijuana) has tapered off several orders of magnitude from the teen years- thus suggesting that as the brain ages, something is changing in marijuana receptors.

Nahhh. A lot of us just ended up in jobs that required us to agree to random drug testing as a condition of employment.

Otherwise we wouldn't be so damn cranky. [:D]

K.



Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/13/2011 4:20:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
The people who are effective treating addicts and getting them to either reduce their use or transition to less harmful drugs are other addicts. Same principle as AA.

I'd question the less harmful transition thing in a few cases. Methadone has been demonstrated to be even more habit forming than heroin, hasn't it? (Hence a very good joke in Woody Allen's Annie Hall...)



samboct -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/13/2011 5:19:28 AM)

Hi K

I think the stats were collected before whizz quizzes became so popular so that for the selected populations- the risks and penalties were reasonably similar. Of course that acceptable risks also change as we get older- which is why we like youngsters fighting in wars.

Moon- overall, I think its pretty clear that methadone addiction is less debilitating for many people compared to heroin. I haven't looked at how effective these transition programs are- but some of the people I've spoken with who have been heroin addicts and aren't any longer don't sneer at them.

Sam



Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/13/2011 5:26:39 AM)

Methadone's a lot safer, because there aren't going to be any dubious additions and it's always the same concentration, but it hasn't really been demonstrated to cause any less of a physical dependence than heroin. I think the rest of the transition programmes probably have more to do with weaning people off their habit than changing their drug. There's an unfortunate tendency for people to assume that might work is going to be a miracle cure in treating addiction, which is actually something you see in a lot of your man Burroghs' work. Just look at the advert for Dent and his apomorphine treatment in Naked Lunch, and remember that Burroughs was soon back to staring at his shoe after he'd finished taking that treatment himself...



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