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Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize ... - 6/1/2011 4:48:56 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

A slew of big-name former politicians are endorsing a report that says the war on drugs is not working and that drug enforcement policy needs to fundamentally change. The Global Commission on Drug Policy will urge a "paradigm shift" that emphasizes public health over criminalization tomorrow at a meeting in New York City, The Guardian reports.

Those backing the report include former Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo, former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, former U.S. Secretary of State George Shultz and former Fed Chair Paul Volcker. Former elected leaders of Greece, Brazil and Colombia have also signed on. Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs



What struck me as funny is that a couple of Reaganites are among those who support such a move, John Whitehead and George Shultz.

Seems that this would be something conservatives would be against unanimously.

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 5:37:01 PM   
flcouple2009


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Status: offline 		What have we accomplished?     Everyone who wants drugs still gets them.

The drug trade has created more problems than simple drug use ever has.


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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 5:38:47 PM   
pahunkboy


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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 5:39:34 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Seems that this would be something conservatives would be against unanimously.


Wrong again. Depends on the drugs, the methods of distribution, penalties against illegal distribution etc.

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 5:42:19 PM   
provfivetine


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Status: offline 		It's all a dog and pony show; nothing will result from this - unfortunately. There's big money involved in keeping drugs illegal. William Randolph Hearst understood this..

< Message edited by provfivetine -- 6/1/2011 5:43:05 PM >

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 5:50:16 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		Legalization is one of the tenets of the Libertarians.  Dunno if you'd consider them conservatives.

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 6:43:29 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		Well, we have Richard Nixon on record first using the term "War on Drugs," Ronald Reagan was a big anti-drug president, so were both Bush sr. and Bush jr.

There have been no Republicans to EVER introduce a bill to legalize marijuana, and the only Rep who ever did was Barney Frank who introduced a bill that would legalize possession of less than 100grams.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 6/1/2011 6:44:35 PM >

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 6:44:06 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Seems that this would be something conservatives would be against unanimously.



Then your understanding of conservatives and conservatism may have been colored in with a brush that was WAAAY to big for the job, Jlf.

Maybe saying "most" would work, but then it would apply to the liberals as well. After all, that's the philosophy that thinks gov't knows best, right?



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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 6:48:36 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

What have we accomplished?    


Without going into any specifics or sources whatsoever, it has recently come to my attention that despite decades of inflation, the gram of coke that cost $100 in 1983, now costs $50. Does that count?

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 7:00:47 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		There is a mad rush to ban bath salts.      And you can not sell raw milk- in some countries- vitamins and minerals are illegal.  must be by rx.

so the trend is more control- not less.

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 7:24:39 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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Status: offline 		The approach to drugs is an interesting discussion cause personally I think there isn't any obvious solution cept some sort of compromise. I reckon a nuanced approach is needed. States generally could be less punitive by criminalising addicts less and more mildly. Wouldn't like to see decriminalisation except for soft drugs like cannabis but da idea of legalising highly addictive drugs is pretty outlandish IMO. Folks say the War on Drugs has been lost. Maybe it has but there is no way of telling what da situation would be like with complete decriminalisation. It would probably increase serious addiction hugely. Reckon the consequences could be devastating in society especially in disadvantaged communities.

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 7:32:09 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961



What struck me as funny is that a couple of Reaganites are among those who support such a move, John Whitehead and George Shultz.

Seems that this would be something conservatives would be against unanimously.



Not hardly. If this is something liberals are for, then on this rare occasion on this issue, I'm with them.  And as a big-name former politician I'm endorsing the report.




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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 11:29:58 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

It's all a dog and pony show; nothing will result from this - unfortunately. There's big money involved in keeping drugs illegal. William Randolph Hearst understood this..


I fear you are correct in your assessment here.

There is also the matter of a number of international treaties and conventions in place:
"The United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances of 1988 is one of three major drug control treaties currently in force. It provides additional legal mechanisms for enforcing the 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs and the 1971 Convention on Psychotropic Substances."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_Against_Illicit_Traffic_in_Narcotic_Drugs_and_Psychotropic_Substances

It's going to take an awful lot of work to overthrow these treaties.

Fortunately, several countries are already ignoring the provisions of these treaties as they begin to address their drug issues sensibly. Amongst others, Switzerland and Australia have established heroin using facilities for addicts. These sensible measures contravene the treaties. So in time these treaties might be made irrelevant by events. They're already somewhat irrelevant to the reality of widespread drug consumption internationally.

Let's hope so.


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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/1/2011 11:35:25 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

What have we accomplished?    


Without going into any specifics or sources whatsoever, it has recently come to my attention that despite decades of inflation, the gram of coke that cost $100 in 1983, now costs $50. Does that count?

Yes TheHeretic. It sure counts in my book.

We might add to that tens of thousands of people in prison (c80% of Australian prisoners are doing time for drug-related offences) and billions and billions of dollars squandered.

For sheer waste of lives, time, resources and effort it's hard to equal.

BTW that same ounce of coke can cost $3-400 here. It's not fair!

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/1/2011 11:39:51 PM >

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/2/2011 12:26:22 AM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		According to some economists, legalized marijuana would generate tax revenues close to the same as tobacco or alcohol, possibly more since accurate surveys of marijuana use is hard to come by. Seems that people will admit to trying it, but few admit to being daily users of the drug.

So taking the tobacco tax revenue as a basis, it would mean $13,337,259,000 which was the federal tax revenues on tobacco as of 2005.

This does not count the savings at the federal level, legalization could save at least $2.4 billion in drug war expenses.

At the state and local level, legalization could save at least $5.3 billion yearly in taxpayer-funded drug war expenses.

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/2/2011 1:01:04 AM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		The war on drugs never ever worked. How long has this war gone on? I dont think that the Feds will ever decriminalize pot let alone any drugs stronger than that, they are steadfast against that. To finally give in would be to admit all the billions that have been spent on this war was tax money down the drain. So better to just keep throwing money at the problem.

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/2/2011 1:19:45 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

According to some economists, legalized marijuana would generate tax revenues close to the same as tobacco or alcohol, possibly more since accurate surveys of marijuana use is hard to come by. Seems that people will admit to trying it, but few admit to being daily users of the drug.

So taking the tobacco tax revenue as a basis, it would mean $13,337,259,000 which was the federal tax revenues on tobacco as of 2005.

This does not count the savings at the federal level, legalization could save at least $2.4 billion in drug war expenses.

At the state and local level, legalization could save at least $5.3 billion yearly in taxpayer-funded drug war expenses.

You seem to have listed in excess of 20 billion good reasons to change drug laws.

That figure excludes the savings in prison administration and building, judicial processes, legal costs etc. It is impossible to put a price on the broken lives or deaths due to accidental overdoses that the status quo produces.

How long will the absurd "War on Drugs" last before we agree is has been a dismal inept failure that has produced the very opposite of what it set out to do?

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/2/2011 4:26:20 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

Seems that this would be something conservatives would be against unanimously.


Only if you are a bigot and think all conservatives feel the same way about everything.


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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/2/2011 5:13:18 AM   
samboct


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Status: offline 		Hold it....you're missing the larger picture about the war on drugs. Don't you remember movies like Reefer Madness? That's why we needed the FBI- who didn't do a very good job of catching criminals except through illegal means- and by making a weed - of all things illegal-created a never ending stream of jobs for people who would have trouble in the private sector. Think about all those poor FBI agents who would be without jobs! Or think of the poor Coast Guardies who might actually have to go back to making sure our shipping lanes are safe and figure out how to deal with natural disasters as well as oil spills instead of snooping around trying to ferret out dope smugglers using big tits as places to stash their contraband.

There's another possibility about the drop in price in coke- the amount coming in hasn't changed- it's simply gotten less popular so with the softer demand- there's been a price drop.

And anybody who's taught in an inner city school for a day will realize the damage done to kids as their parents are in jail.

Tweakabelle- thanks for pointing out that Australia's been about as goofy as the US on this one.


Sam

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RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminal... - 6/2/2011 5:22:39 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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Status: offline 		I have always felt all drug use should be decriminalized. Prohibition doesn't work. Education and treatment work.

But I unfortunately have to agree, I don't believe there will be any sort of major shift until our society can come around to the understanding that in almost all cases, drug (or alcohol) abuse is an illness, as well as a symptom of a larger societal problem.

JMO




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