RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (Full Version)

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VaguelyCurious -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/3/2011 7:13:04 PM)

It gave me female, but only by a margin of about a hundred, which isn't much.

ETA: I've now run 9 blogs through it and it was split 5:4 f:m, and only one of them was by a margin of more than 100.




Edwynn -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/3/2011 7:16:31 PM)



Oh gosh, PLEASE don't tell me you need a 'check box' to figure any of this out.






Tantriqu -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/3/2011 7:28:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
I got a 7 out of 10. However.......anything that sounded whiny or oh woe is me, or look how cool I am, I attributed to male. Anything that romantically glorified men in a gooey way, I attributed to female. The 3 were examples that were not obvious to any of the above.

Same for me!
I don't actually like any of these authors [although have never heard of or read any Abbott or Wesley (hmmm, masculine last names like Eliot: coincidence!?!?) , but OMG, I hate Margaret Atwood with a searing eternal flame.
Naipaul is certainly in the 'whiny woe is I' entitlement category, and Mr. Biswah is one where he treats female characters very brutally. I'd rather Naipaul (masculine last name: coincidence?!?!?) took MY test, heh heh.
And in the 21st century, JK Rowling still called herself by her initials because she felt boys wouldn't read her books otherwise? Disgusting.




aromanholiday -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/3/2011 7:35:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

It gave me female, but only by a margin of about a hundred, which isn't much.

ETA: I've now run 9 blogs through it and it was split 5:4 f:m, and only one of them was by a margin of more than 100.



How interesting. It seems confused about you. :)

I wonder what it would do with the text from a well-known female or male writer?

(Tries an excerpt from Dostoevsky's The Idiot, Ch 12.)

Male, by about 500

Will have to try something trickier.





VaguelyCurious -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/3/2011 7:39:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

OMG, I hate Margaret Atwood with a searing eternal flame.

I could not agree more. The Edible Woman made me very very cross. I don't often get angry at books, but that one really got me.




SorceressJ -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/3/2011 7:41:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

OMG, I hate Margaret Atwood with a searing eternal flame.

I could not agree more. The Edible Woman made me very very cross. I don't often get angry at books, but that one really got me.


THIS. I have not read "The Edible Woman" but even "The Handmaid's Tale" was enough.. [8|]




ParappaTheDapper -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/3/2011 8:12:59 PM)

I was really hoping you'd post in this thread! I've noticed you're a writer who is both earnest about the craft and generally insightful! You've also been one of the people who has made my brief time here so enjoyable so far.

Your answer pretty much matches my own intuitions and experiences. The point about noticing the way men communicate with men and women communicate with women is quite resonant! I strongly suspect part of the reason there seems to have been a more distinctly "Female voice" and "Male voice" 150 years ago or more (which, let's face it, is roughly where Naipaul's consciousness is when it comes to gender questions) is that men and women were so terribly segregated from each other socially.

A couple of the first counterexamples that came to mind when I read Naipaul's comments were Mary Shelley and George Eliot. Both of these women were very socially progressive for their eras and both of them were influenced by (and in turn were influences upon) talented male friends and lovers. Frankenstein in particular is famously a product of maybe the most glamorous impromptu "writers group" ever in the form of Percy, Mary, Byron and John Polidori cooped up on a rainy night on Lake Geneva shooting the shit with each other about the art of ghost stories and macabre writing.

Similarly, when I think of the paragon of the "Female Voice" I think of Jane Austen, whose nonliterary life is famously typical for the daughter of minor gentry of her era. She was a gifted seamstress who supervised the servants and largely seems to have spared those around her from her brilliant and acerbic wit. Her devotion to her family and family duties was touching, chaste, and pious and I've always thought it led to that sublime contrast in her writing that allowed her to alternate between a wit every bit as cutting as Swift or Thackeray and a beautifully light touch in describing characters and settings.

At the end of the day I think you're right, the literary voice is shaped in such large part by a combination of the individual talent (genius, for a lucky few!) and by the observation of the kinds of interactions between people that present themselves most intimately to a given writer on a daily basis. Observing social interactions is such a crucial part of the symbiosis in which the world offers itself up to artists so that artists can recreate it into something sublime.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Hello Parappa (and everyone)
I hope you won't mind if I take a "writer's" view of this question.  I find that there are certainly different ways men and women communicate, and there are ways men communicate with each other and women communicate with each other.  In order to be a writer, a good one anyway, one must go beyond personal experience and view the world, see the little idiosyncracies of people.  This is what being a writer is - observe and then paint the picture with words.  The observation is through one set of lenses - our own.  Female and male are only one part of that.  (Thank goodness!)  A great joy in my life is the writers group where we share our work and each person gives feedback to the others.  Sometimes this very topic comes up.  I wrote a scene in which two men were talking, and I had it spot on... almost.  All the guys were like, "ah, sunshine, men will tease each other about x, y, and z if they are alone - even during a serious conversation."  That was an eye opener. 

Do men and women have different writing styles?  Each person has their own.  Are we influenced by our gender?  Sure... that and a million other factors.

On a personal note, it's a pleasure having you here.  Your topics are always interesting.  Thank you for bringing such fabulosity to the boards.

best,
sunshine






ParappaTheDapper -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/3/2011 8:16:07 PM)

I pasted a couple of chunks of non-fiction I've written and a couple of passages of fiction and, interestingly enough, to me, I scored male by a pretty wide margin on all the nonfiction and female by a narrow margin on one piece of fiction and male by a slightly wider margin on the other.


quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

There is a web test for this. Did I first see it here or did a friend IM it to me? I don't remember. Anyway, here is the test:

http://bookblog.net/gender/genie.php

It's better if you insert a large portion of text. I inserted myself and got female. I then inserted the text of a sexually ambiguous person, and got the gender they preferred, so maybe there is some accuracy to it. I hope that website isn't saving all of our texts...I didn't pay too much attention to where I got my text!

Post your results? I'd be curious to know if it guesses otheres accurately.





ParappaTheDapper -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/3/2011 8:23:05 PM)

quote:

wonder what it would do with the text from a well-known female or male writer?

(Tries an excerpt from Dostoevsky's The Idiot, Ch 12.)

Male, by about 500

Will have to try something trickier.


I'm curious what it would do with a long passage by Fuentes or Marquez or Manguel and also what it would do, where applicable, with different translations of the same text. But I'm also awfully tipsy and equally lazy and since I can't simply cut and paste any of this effortlessly into a magic box, I will have to remain curious!

Calvino and Eco would also be interesting experiments! And passages from Didion's essays and Flan O'Connor's short fiction! These would also require effort!

I know years ago when I played around with this or a similar tool I was more ambitious and actually typed in some of my favorite passages from a Dawn Powell novel I was reading at the time and she came up male by a pretty wide margin.




sunshinemiss -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/3/2011 9:45:10 PM)

Frankenstein in particular is famously a product of maybe the most glamorous impromptu "writers group" ever in the form of Percy, Mary, Byron and John Polidori cooped up on a rainy night on Lake Geneva shooting the shit with each other about the art of ghost stories and macabre writing.

I believe... wait... *checks*  yes... I just had an orgasm.  Thank you Parappa.  *smooch




ParappaTheDapper -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/3/2011 10:33:28 PM)

You're welcome! Byron and thunderstorms always do it for me, too!
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Frankenstein in particular is famously a product of maybe the most glamorous impromptu "writers group" ever in the form of Percy, Mary, Byron and John Polidori cooped up on a rainy night on Lake Geneva shooting the shit with each other about the art of ghost stories and macabre writing.

I believe... wait... *checks*  yes... I just had an orgasm.  Thank you Parappa.  *smooch






Edwynn -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/4/2011 5:42:49 AM)




quote:

ORIGINAL: ParappaTheDapper
And passages from Didion's essays and Flan O'Connor's short fiction! These would also require effort!




Please, if you will, that's Flannery O'Connor. Her pea hens would be rather annoyed to hear such flippancy.



"Everywhere I go I'm asked if I think the university stifles writers. My opinion is that they don't stifle enough of them. There's many a best-seller that could have been prevented by a good teacher."

Flannery O'Connor











Tantriqu -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/4/2011 4:13:24 PM)

And not forgetting the Brontes, Georges Sand, and Jane Loudon, the chick who wrote 'The Mummy', presaging SCUBA tanks, robot surgery, and neon lights, 200 years ago.




Edwynn -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/4/2011 5:49:36 PM)


I think that Tolstoy had 'Anna Karrenina' down pat. But what is there to say about a society that has everything down pat? At least as existed at the time, in that place.

I was all caught up with Maria Sklodovska myself.









juliaoceania -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/4/2011 7:22:52 PM)

Anyone who would compare themselves to Jane Austen and think that they were a better writer is just a pompous asshole. She was truly one of the most witty authors EVER. I have read Pride and Prejudice several times, and not for the plot, but to try to gain insight into Austen's timing and her zinger lines. I have never read anyone close to her except maybe John Kennedy Toole, who while not as sharp as Austen had this comedic absurdity that is hard to match... Austen had a sense of the absurd, too, mind you, but not as over the top as Toole.

I do not think that there is a female voice and a male voice. I think there are perceptions of what these things are, but that the reality is gender identity is culturally determined more than biological when it comes to aggression, logic, and passivity.




Edwynn -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/4/2011 7:42:45 PM)



Flannery O'Connor is my favourite pompous asshole, even if she knew better than to compare herself thuswise.

She held her tongue on some few occasions, but not nearly enough, as it turns out.







willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/4/2011 7:55:32 PM)

My initial reaction was no, there isnt. But I got 9 out of 10, so the question is were the quotes chosen because they are unusually "gender-esque", or typical of all prose?

I think the real answer to the question would be found in interviews with authors who wrote under pseudonyms of the opposite gender, and whether they had to alter their natural style in order to hide their actual gender.




juliaoceania -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/4/2011 8:20:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



Flannery O'Connor is my favourite pompous asshole, even if she knew better than to compare herself thuswise.

She held her tongue on some few occasions, but not nearly enough, as it turns out.







Steinbeck wrote this short story calledThe Chrysanthemums. It was a short story about a 40ish year old woman with unexpressed longings. He had this beautiful way of capturing nature to make it a symbol of something larger, like the conflicts within us as human beings. He captured this farmer's wife to such perfection, her inner yearnings.... I suspect he must have known a woman like her. He got into a feminine perspective I have never seen matched by a man. I love him because he is a Californian, too. When I write I try to think in character, and to think symbolically, and he is the one that influenced me to do so. I do not come close to him in my fiction writing, but hey, we all need goals....[:D]




Tantriqu -> RE: Is there a Male writing style and a Female writing style? (6/4/2011 11:22:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Anyone who would compare themselves to Jane Austen and think that they were a better writer is just a pompous asshole. She was truly one of the most witty authors EVER. I have read Pride and Prejudice several times, and not for the plot, but to try to gain insight into Austen's timing and her zinger lines. I do not think that there is a female voice and a male voice. I think there are perceptions of what these things are, but that the reality is gender identity is culturally determined more than biological when it comes to aggression, logic, and passivity.


I agree. I love Austen, too, and think anyone unfamiliar with her wouldn't believe a 'female voice' published a racy 'rear and vice' admiral joke 200 years ago. (Miss Crawford in Mansfield Park, check it out).
Or one of the first known publication of the word 'baseball' in Northanger Abbey;
and of course, in Persuasion, perhaps the reason Anne didn't marry her father's heir, Mr. Elliot, is because he described him as 'very much underhung.'
And what's more manly than baseball, dick-size and ass jokes?




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