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Owner59 -> RE: Andrew Sullivan demolishes the Republican agenda as a fulfillment of Christian ideals. (6/7/2011 8:09:50 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ladyneedshelp
This man id full of shit. He has no idea what the bible says other than what has been quoted to him. Jesus was never anti wealth. A wealth man who worshiped his wealth came to ask what he must do to enter the kingdom and Jesus replied give away everything u have. That was not because he was rich....Jesus did not say that to every rich man he met.....he saaid it because the man worshiped his wealth over all else. And inorder to "get right with God" he had to give up that master of hiis life and he would no more do that than give it all away!
People are always taking one verse to support an idea....if there is not a single verse that fits they use anything simular.
People say God is aginst alcohol because he told someone he could not serve a master of the drink(for alcholics alchol is their master) and serve THE Master, God. Jesus made not only wine he made the best wine at the wedding. If God were aginst drinking that would not have happened. Saame concept of wealth as ur master.
Most of our founding fathers were christians. Straight up. Their christian values influenced their conception of goverment. One need only read their writings to know this is so. To deny is to ignore what they wrote. that does not mean they expected everyone to be christian, nor I imaigan did they care....dbeyond concern for a brothers soul) when they made a seperation of church and state they were only defining the creation of a state wide church. Its not up to the goovt. To decide how someone dose or does not worship, that's a personal right to choose or not to choose.
To depend on some jerk who goes to a church were they depend on the priest to tell them what the bible says is pure stupidity. And palin is not into the christian reconstruction.....do people actually belive everything the media or bloggers say? Geeseeee.....eyes roll......
Did ya'll hear that the historical experts said paliin was right about paul rever?
"Did ya'll hear that the historical experts said paliin was right about paul rever"
No I heard them say she wasn`t correct.The spin was pretty lame too.Just dug herself deeper .
The wall of separation between church and state is as much a part of the FF as was their religious beliefs.
Many of the FF were diests.
Thomas Paine
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
George Washington
The first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washington uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.
John Adams
The country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievements" but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"
It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."
Thomas Jefferson
Third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
James Madison
The fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
Ethan Allen
Whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."
Benjamin Franklin
Delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.
And no,thinking that maybe because there were more Christians than anyone else doesn`t mean that Christianity "wins" the official stamp of America.It doesn`t work that way.Christian/fundies aren`t in charge,are not god`s favorite,aren`t America`s official state religion and Christians don`t get more of a say than anyone else.
Is it arrogance or insecurity that make some "Christians" think they are in charge?
Jesus said "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”
Jesus himself wanted government and religion separate.Not because religion would have ill affects on government/nations but because government would be a bad influence on religion.
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