LafayetteLady
Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: snugglepuss
a simple and direct question here. when is it ok to refuse your master? and what should i do if he doese not listen to a no?
I am not of the school of thought where a slave or even sub should never be permitted to say no. So when is it ok? When YOU feel that you need to say no.
quote:
ORIGINAL: snugglepuss
it is a more basic no. i dont meen the "please master i cant today" i meen the no that comes when your limit has been breached or an agreement wallked over
I know there is a bit of a languaage barrier, so I'm trying to keep my comments as simple as possible. This is not a "basic" no. He is going against what you agreed to at the beginning and using the "I'm the master and you will always obey" excuse as a means of doing what he wants.
quote:
ORIGINAL: snugglepuss
i understand the problem and realice i have been a bit shallow in what i am asking. i am new in this life and have been tought to always obay. but i do have my limits. and to be expised to them is not in my wishes, i am slave and wish to be so. but i think i still desirve some respect as a living being.. i have never been asked for my hard limits. but i do give them. the question is genniral but based on the real no. the one saying i have no intrest in being in this situation
You aren't being shallow at all snugglepuss. You have a real concern and are coming to a place where you want experienced people to help you understand. Being new, of course you have limits. Those limits may last forever, or fade over time. Right now though, they are limits. It sounds as though your partner (who in my opinion doesn't deserve to be called master) isn't interested in what hard limits you have or he would have asked and spoke to you about whether or not they could ever change.
quote:
ORIGINAL: snugglepuss
this is someting to think on. thank you for sharing your opinion. maybe i should try to have a serius talk where i can air my thoughts and conserns openly. but then how do one start a talk like that? i meen you should not contredic your master and to say he acts wrong is not a good thing eather.. this is a realy tight rope to walk on.
How do you start? You politely say, "we need to have an open and honest discussion where our "positions" are not in play.
And who says you shouldn't contradict him? If he said he was going to tie you to a wheelchair and set you on fire, would you not contradict him and say "oh no you aren't?" I'm not saying that you should say "listen fucktwad, you are stepping all over me and I'm not going to take it anymore." I'm saying sit down, tell him you need to talk, and if he says he isn't going to listen, then you say, "thanks for your time, I'll be getting my things and leaving now. Have a nice life."
quote:
ORIGINAL: snugglepuss
thank you for geting my mind to start working a bit. i will think and then have a talk. then it is all up to him i guese. i will have to tell him my needs and limits once more and make sertin he hears them. i so hate to be loud. and if he cant understand then i dont know. you have been a big help
Sweetie, if you tried talking to him in the past and he didn't listen, I'm sorry but he isn't likely to listen this time. No need to be "loud" about it, just assertive. Quietly, pointedly, assertive, where you tell him, "if you can't respect my limits and the fact that I'm a human being, then we aren't a good match and it is better that we end it now."
quote:
ORIGINAL: snugglepuss
i have told him yes. about the limits. he did not ask me but i did tell him in our talk to get to know echother fase. i told him what i was looking for and also what was my hard limits. but i feel they are geting more and more smudged so to say. he is stepping at the edges all the time. pushing at the walls. this makes me unsecure as well as it is so suttle. i dont want to look like a nag or just spoiled. i dont know when to stop him. i dont realy know how to explain it. the language makes my thoughts come out a bit mixed up.
Was this the first and only time you talked to him about your limits, hard and soft? If it was, then yes, talk about them again. But it really sounds like he has no interest in listening or he just doesn't take them seriously.
It isn't being a nag or acting spoiled to tell someone they are going further than you told them you would go from the beginning. It is taking responsibility for yourself. We all enter these types of relationships because they make us happy and give us satisfaction. When your partner has no interest in your happiness (ever) or your satisfaction (ever) or your limits (ever), that's a big problem.
Many dommes talk about being a male subs fetish delivery device (or something like that). Sounds like this guy thinks about you the same way. If it isn't working for you, then you have to take action.
quote:
ORIGINAL: snugglepuss
i dont mind being molded and guided. i even welcome it as i am still new to this life and have not yet found all that i am/ can be. but still i do know what i dont wish to do or to be done to me. it is like if i dont want him to touch my toes he grabes the toe nail instead. doese that make any sence?
Being molded and guided is not the same as being used and abused in a way you don't want. You admit you know what you don't wish to be done to you and you have the right to have someone who respects that about you.
Yes, it makes complete sense about the toe/toenail comment. He is trying to find subtle ways around what you want or don't want done. It isn't what I would call bait and switch, but I don't call it gently trying to push your limits either. In my opinion, there needs to be discussions about when, where and how limits can start getting pushed. Think of it this way, if you started taking ballet classes, you can't expect to start dancing point right away. It must be worked up to through years of training and lots of hard work.
quote:
ORIGINAL: snugglepuss
i know my language makes my thoughts and what i want to say not come out as planed all the time. forcing can truly be intresting but as i am not needed to be forced as i wish to please the one i am with. i like foce of the body but i do wish my limits to be respected and dont like to be forced in that sence. i dont feel uncomftible with who/what i am. if it was only about me wanting him or anyone to force me to comply i would not have stared this thread. i am not shamed with myself or my desires or needs.
thank you all for listening and for giving advise. i to give up this. it seems i cant get out what i want to say or ask advice about.
You are doing fine with the language and the more you write, the better it will get. Again, if he can't respect your limits, he isn't respecting you. Slave or sub, we all deserve respect as human beings. Don't EVER forget that or compromise that.
A long time ago, I used to do play dates (they don't interest me anymore). But I had a play partner, who tried to do something he had no experience in and I told him to stop. Several times. Then I swung around and gave him a good left hook to the jaw. I wouldn't recommend that to everyone, and I never hit anyone before or since, it really isn't my way of doing things, but he left me no choice.
I'm in no way recommending that you turn around and punch the guy (but I admit it did feel good, lol). What I'm saying is that you need to take responsibility for YOU. It sounds like he has not interest in having any responsibility for your health and well being either physically or emotionally.
Do what is right for YOU. The rest will follow.
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RE: to say no.. - 
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