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RE: Abortion has been safe and legal for 45 years now! ... - 6/10/2011 4:29:50 PM   
Lucylastic


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aaaaaaah that wonderful world called opinion,
well I give you that.
Have all the opinion you can muster wilbur:)


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RE: Abortion has been safe and legal for 45 years now! ... - 6/10/2011 6:22:52 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

doesnt trump the mothers right to decide whats to do with hers


In your opinion, which, believe it or not, doesn't trump anyone elses opinion.



Actually, the constitution pretty much trumps yours

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RE: Abortion has been safe and legal for 45 years now! ... - 6/10/2011 6:24:39 PM   
Lucylastic


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You just shot his pink unicorn!!!!

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RE: Abortion has been safe and legal for 45 years now! ... - 6/10/2011 6:28:42 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

You just shot his pink unicorn!!!!



I am just mean like that

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Lucylastic)
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RE: Abortion has been safe and legal for 45 years now! ... - 6/10/2011 8:03:06 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

As a matter of fact the court's entire ruling is based on the right to privacy.

MR. JUSTICE STEWART, concurring...

There is no constitutional right of privacy, as such. "[The Fourth] Amendment protects individual privacy against certain kinds of governmental intrusion, but its protections go further, and often have nothing to do with privacy at all. Other provisions of [410 U.S. 113, 168] the Constitution protect personal privacy from other forms of governmental invasion. But the protection of a person's general right to privacy - his right to be let alone by other people - is, like the protection of his property and of his very life, left largely to the law of the individual States

K.



The concurring opinion is not the majority opinion. I quoted the majority opinion once but what the heck here it is again
quote:

This right of privacy, whether it be founded in the Fourteenth Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions upon state action, as we feel it is, or, as the District Court determined, in the Ninth Amendment's reservation of rights to the people, is broad enough to encompass a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy

quote:

We, therefore, conclude that the right of personal privacy includes the abortion decision


(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Abortion has been safe and legal for 45 years now! ... - 6/11/2011 9:47:57 AM   
Kirata


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Have you ever considered dancing as a profession?

I quote directly from the majority opinion, and you falsely claim that I trimmed the quote. I cite Justice Stewart's concurrance, because it makes the matter at issue explicit, and you complain that it's only a concurrance. Okay, we'll do it the hard way. From the majority opinion, Section VIII:

The Constitution does not explicitly mention any right of privacy. In a line of decisions, however... the Court has recognized that a right of personal privacy, or a guarantee of certain areas or zones of privacy, does exist under the Constitution. In varying contexts, the Court or individual Justices have, indeed, found at least the roots of that right in the First Amendment... in the Fourth and Fifth Amendments... in the penumbras of the Bill of Rights... in the Ninth Amendment... or in the concept of liberty guaranteed by the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Critically, however...

These decisions make it clear that only personal rights that can be deemed "fundamental" or "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty..." are included in this guarantee of personal privacy

In other words, it is a derived right having only specific and limited applications. Such is the nature of the so-called "right to privacy" being mooted here. Hence, as the majority finding makes clear, Roe was decided on the basis of the specific and limited protection of due process...

To summarize and repeat:

1. A state criminal abortion statute of the current Texas type, that excepts from criminality only a life-saving procedure on behalf of the mother, without regard to pregnancy stage and without recognition of the other interests involved, is violative of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.


To bandy on about some mythological constitutional "right to privacy" is misleading, and to claim that Roe was decided on the basis of such a "right" is simply false. The constitutional basis for finding in favor of Roe was that the statute under examination violated due process. Had Roe's so-called right to privacy been "violated" in any of myriad other ways, she would quickly have found that she had none.

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/11/2011 10:08:53 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Abortion has been safe and legal for 45 years now! ... - 6/11/2011 10:38:22 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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Look you claimed and I quote
quote:

The basis for the decision in Roe was that the law violated the 14th Amendment right to due process, not a right to privacy.

Which I completely disproved. The Justices even said that whether you find the Right to Privacy in the 9th amendment, as the appelate court did, or the 14th as they did was irrelevant.

The plaintiffs brought the action under the Griswold precedent and the justices decided it under that precedent. Not only do I say that but 40 years of legal scholars writing on the decision say so.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Abortion has been safe and legal for 45 years now! ... - 6/11/2011 10:54:11 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Which I completely disproved.

All you've "disproved" is that you can read English. To wit:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The plaintiffs brought the action under the Griswold precedent and the justices decided it under that precedent.

From the majority finding, Section IX:

The situation therefore is inherently different from marital intimacy, or bedroom possession of obscene material, or marriage, or procreation, or education, with which Eisenstadt and Griswold, Stanley, Loving, Skinner, and Pierce and Meyer were respectively concerned.
But since you want to keep this up, how about "proving" your claim that I trimmed a quote to change its meaning.

Got a dance step for that one, Fred?

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/11/2011 10:58:34 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Abortion has been safe and legal for 45 years now! ... - 6/11/2011 11:02:32 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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So bored with this nonsense
http://www.lawyers.com/our-blog/archives/586-Roe-v.-Wade,-Privacy-and-the-US-Constitution.html
http://atheism.about.com/library/decisions/privacy/bldec_RoeWade.htm
http://news.change.org/stories/the-right-to-privacy-roe-v-wade

journal articles
http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/ukalr21&div=28&id=&page=
http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=119416

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Abortion has been safe and legal for 45 years now! ... - 6/11/2011 11:10:57 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So bored with this nonsense

You got that right. I'll stand on what I said here.

You be sure to post that "proof" of your trimming accusation when you find time.

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Abortion has been safe and legal for 45 years now! ... - 6/11/2011 2:31:46 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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I guess it is pointless since you just handwaved away 40 years of legal thought on the subject but why does the majority opinion spend copnsiderable time establishing the existence of the right to privacy (the part you skip over with ellipsis in your above quote)? If they weren't relying on the right to privacy then why discuss it at all?



< Message edited by DomKen -- 6/11/2011 2:32:03 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 31
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