The End of the Oil Age ? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


Aneirin -> The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 3:37:57 AM)

Would you send your child to war to fight over the last barrels of oil? Would you go yourself? Or pay taxes to support such a war? What will you do when oil is no longer “cheap” and abundant? What will you do if climate change becomes climate chaos? We have no choice about the end of the petroleum age. But we can choose how gracefully we make the transition. - By Thom Hartmann

Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Dark Age.............Oil Age,

 All ages where it is said there was significant progress of mankind, the resources discovered and used enabled that progress, but as we know from history, ages decline to be replaced with something else, the next step in mankind's progression and so as our present oil age is coming to an end, what do we have to replace it with, or have we declined too far, clung onto our dependancy long past it's use by date, what hope for our futures ?

The end of oil is coming, there is no doubt about that, and with the end of oil is the inevitable warring and scrapping for control of that finite resource, perhaps why we it seems in recent decades we are involved in perpetual war with some country or other, perhaps even the war on terror was designed to enable actions in oil bearing regions of the world, who knows, but where there is madness, there is method.

Oil is running out, so what do we do, do we tell out leaders to stop titting about in oil bearing regions of the world, which  just happen to also threaten our lives, save the money wasted in killing and use it to develop alternative technologies for our future,( just like president BO promised way back before he was awarded  power) or what, what can we do. What should we do to ensure our survival, as we know full well everything, our food and water depends on oil, what is the way ahead, the Nuclear Age or is it a comlete change of our society that is required ?

Should we depend on others to come up with a solution or is it down to ourselves to start thinking the way ahead, as hey, we are all a bit more savvy with regards progressional thought these days, the ability to read and write has enabled that, let alone the internet, which of course also depends on oil, so it also is a finite resource which if we don't pull our finger out we will also lose along with the oil.

But whilst the internet is still with us, it is enabling the sharing of ideas world wide, for there exists thousands of websites on the internet where brains collide and ideas are discussed and experimented with, quite apart from big industry and it's goals. People who describe themselves as humanitarian, the left field thinker who believe there is more to this world than oil and big business. They have long since seen the end of the oil age coming and they are doing practical things about it, perhaps it is they we should look to and learn as one thing is for sure, big business will also die or at least suffer big time when oil becomes uneconomical to obtain or just plain runs out.

But whilst we are still dependant on oil, we will be engaged in yet more wars to come, our future is war, more bloodshed and more wealth squandered and perhaps even the end of ourselves and the world as we know it, if not the end of life on earth by our hand, well, those who say they act in our best interest at least. Where will we fight next and where will we fight last, well follow the oil and those interested in that oil, Russia, China both countries that can hit us as hard as we hit them, maybe more so, so perhaps the finality will be the slugging it out by the two remaining hard hitters just to chase a finite resource that will come to an end.

 Where is the sense in that ?

So, what do we do, do we do it now whilst we still can or bury our heads in the sand expecting our leaders to look after our interests, (leaders whom many suspect have bigger interests to maintain long before us).

The apocalypse is upon us, is it an inevitable or is it a choice ? Can we choose our future or are we all doomed along with the oil we covert so much, oil, which is literally death from the past.

So what do others think ?

Time for action or yet more destruction ?




eihwaz -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 6:58:42 AM)

Some fun facts and figures, for reference:

quote:

ORIGINAL "Coal Explained: How Much Coal Is Left?" US Energy Information Administration
Based on U.S. coal consumption for 2010, the U.S. recoverable coal reserves represent enough coal to last 249 years. However, EIA projects in the most recent Annual Energy Outlook (April 2011) that U.S. coal consumption will increase at about 1.1% per year for the period 2009-2035. If that growth rate continues into the future, U.S. recoverable coal reserves would be exhausted in about 119 years if no new reserves are added.

According to a 2010 Survey of Energy Resources by the World Energy Council, the five countries with the largest proven recoverable coal reserves are the United States (22.6% of world total), Russia (14.4%), China (12.6%), Australia (8.9%), and India (7.0%).

Daily global consumption of fossil fuels in 2007:
  • oil 86M barrel of oil equivalent
  • coal 57M BBOE
  • gas 51M BBOE
  • TOTAL 194 BBOE

International Energy Statistics, US Energy Information Administration

See, also, "Coal," Wikipeida.






OrionTheWolf -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 7:49:01 AM)

As long as fossil fuels are the cheapest ways for developing countries to grow, they will always be around. Just look at the GDP of China and India, and compare it's climb with their fossil fuel consumption.

I am not sure how the world could tell a 3rd world country they cannot do something that would improve their standard of living to becoming a better place economically.

It is a real problem, that I don't see many solutions for yet.

I am still researching natural gas, the cost and applications, which I do not see many people talk about.




Musicmystery -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 7:56:17 AM)

quote:


It is a real problem, that I don't see many solutions for yet.


In time, fossil fuels will no longer be the cheapest way to go. The supply will drop, and become more expensive to produce as demand drives us to search in less ideal locations.

At that time, people will pursue alternate energies.

Short sighted, yes. But high prices will ultimately be what shifts the balance.

And after all...we didn't leave the Stone Age because we ran out of stone, or the Bronze Age because we ran out of bronze, the Iron Age because we ran out of iron, or the Dark Age because we ran out of dark.

We just learned new ways to do things.


[eta the "f" -- thanks Ron]




mnottertail -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 7:58:17 AM)

I assume an f in there, I hope you don't consider that to forward of me.  But it is a tautology, otherwise.   I wish to fuck we would get ahead of the curve one time though, instead of digging our way out of oblivion.

  




Musicmystery -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 8:00:47 AM)

quote:

I wish to fuck we would get ahead of the curve one time though, instead of digging our way out of oblivion.


Word.




Aneirin -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 8:58:38 AM)

Coal is one thing, but what replaces oil ? But then if we go back to steam via coal, no doubt with what is known now about steam it can be used much more efficiently, perhaps even more efficient than the spark ignition spirit or oil engine.




Anarrus -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 8:59:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:


It is a real problem, that I don't see many solutions for yet.


In time, fossil fuels will no longer be the cheapest way to go. The supply will drop, and become more expensive to produce as demand drives us to search in less ideal locations.

At that time, people will pursue alternate energies.

Short sighted, yes. But high prices will ultimately be what shifts the balance.

And after all...we didn't leave the Stone Age because we ran out of stone, or the Bronze Age because we ran out of bronze, the Iron Age because we ran out of iron, or the Dark Age because we ran out of dark.

We just learned new ways to do things.


[eta the "f" -- thanks Ron]


I'm certain that alternate energies are being pursued with full zeal as we speak by energy mega-corporations in the way of r&d, patent and smaller company acquisition.
When the time is right ..and that will be only after they've squeezed every last penny they can make from fossil fuels and devised strategies for extracting the most profit from newer alternative sources...we'll see alternative energy in abundance.




Musicmystery -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 8:59:34 AM)

Seriously, you're not aware of new technologies?




OrionTheWolf -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 9:13:28 AM)

Kind of goes to a saying I read somewhere "Most people are programmed to react, and very few have the initiative to actually act."

I agree about the new technologies, but I don't think they will come soon enough.

Someone once told me we have left all old technology behind, and used nuclear power as an example. I told them that steam power had been around a long time ;).


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I assume an f in there, I hope you don't consider that to forward of me.  But it is a tautology, otherwise.   I wish to fuck we would get ahead of the curve one time though, instead of digging our way out of oblivion.

 




mnottertail -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 9:50:10 AM)

Yep, some of that old tech could be dressed up with the advancements we have made.

Here is some more on plasma furnaces:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/plasma-converter6.htm
http://www.gec.jp/JSIM_DATA/WASTE/WASTE_3/html/Doc_467.html
http://www.mintek.co.za/Pyromet/Plasma/Plasma.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0040609000016400




jlf1961 -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/10/2011 2:41:46 PM)

There are alternatives to fossil fuels already, just no one wants to invest in OLD technology is at least one respect.

I suggest you look up the Walter Turbine submarine engine, The Walter Submarine Turbine.

Of course the Walter Turbine engine has a polluting exhaust, oxygen and water.




Aneirin -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/11/2011 5:54:11 AM)

But something I touched upon in the OP, is who comes up with new ideas, do you, do you have any ideas, theories or just might be's in your mind, perhaps something no one has thought of as far as you know ? Or do we just wait for someone else to do it, in which case have we become that well trained to seek of those 'qualified'' in society?

If you have an idea, what do you do, pursue it or let it fade from your mind ?

For example, when I was a kid, there was a chap who lived a few roads away who very few people seldom saw, the reason he was seldom seen turned out to be because he was making a machine he had deigned from an idea he had when he worked as a tool fitter. One day the machine was unveiled, a practical perpetual motion engine which he had machined himself. Well he was all over the national news, boffins turned up to see and his machine was taken away for testing only to be returned with negative results, for the boffins had found losses in the machine, so it was not a perpetual motion engine as he claimed. After which he was ridiculed by the press and science community and very shortly after died. His life's work ended up in the local museum for all to see and deride, but strange, I can find nothing on the internet about it and I believe the museum no longer has the machine, so one wonders was it simply scrapped, or is it worth more than initially thought. But the guy was a normal Joe with an idea he put into practice, he tried.

But if you have an idea that passes all you can throw at it, what do you do about it, is it so simple to get that new idea into practical use ?

In other words, what stands in the way ?




StrangerThan -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/11/2011 6:06:44 AM)

Money drives everything.

When it becomes too expensive to use fossil fuels, we;ll find something else. Until then, not so much.




MrRodgers -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/11/2011 6:18:17 AM)

Nothing will be done that isn't done by govt. As it has been demonstrated, under an honest well-regulated regime, the profit motive is the proper incentive.

However, with a more unregulated even subsidized market, universal demand and thus extremely profitable oil market...profits are so high and that demand to completely universal...that producers will not look for any other sources of energy on any major scale. The profit motive here actually hurts because it is so high and unending.

Can't foresee the future but we could be down to nothing but coal and what I call 'the sands of oil' (oil pools being dry) will there be any serious investment in alternatives. This investment will be such that the equivalent of it to oil may be well over $120 or maybe even $150/barrel. As a result we will now never see oil or energy in general come down in price. Supply will be regulated to keep all prices high.




SternSkipper -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/11/2011 9:38:50 AM)

quote:

I wish to fuck we would get ahead of the curve one time though, instead of digging our way out of oblivion.

Word.


Getting ahead of the curve means less demand for fossil fuel products which makes the petrochemical industry very unhappy.
It's our responsibility to waste, waste, waste, while they gain control of the alternative energy market.
  Remember guys ... WE OWE THEM[:D]




SternSkipper -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/11/2011 10:03:31 AM)

quote:

Yep, some of that old tech could be dressed up with the advancements we have made.

Here is some more on plasma furnaces:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/plasma-converter6.htm
http://www.gec.jp/JSIM_DATA/WASTE/WASTE_3/html/Doc_467.html
http://www.mintek.co.za/Pyromet/Plasma/Plasma.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0040609000016400


Sounds like almost free energy... which is a bad thing... ask sanity




Musicmystery -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/11/2011 10:10:05 AM)

quote:

a practical perpetual motion engine which he had machined himself... and his machine was taken away for testing only to be returned with negative results, ...so it was not a perpetual motion engine as he claimed.


I'm missing the point of your story. It didn't work.

Which of these do you think we should be manufacturing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion





TheCabal -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/11/2011 2:34:22 PM)

We are still in the heart of the golden age of fossil fuels.  People have been mistakenly howling about 'peak oil' and worried about it running out since shortly after Titusville in 1859, and we're still discovering more faster than we're using it.  And this is doubly true of natural gas. 

Every other alternative to fossil fuel has it's own drawbacks.

Hydro, which actually works, and is very cost effective, wreaks havoc with fish. 

The danger of nuclear, which also actually works and is cost effective, is currently on display in Japan.

Solar and wind are unreliable and not cost effective - and as very mature technologies, probably never will be.  Never mind the danger wind energy poses to birds.

One day - most likely within the next century, I suspect we'll find a way to make nuclear much safer, and we'll be able to migrate to it with minimal effort.  Until then though, we have plenty of fossil fuel.




Musicmystery -> RE: The End of the Oil Age ? (6/11/2011 2:56:20 PM)



Several of the neighboring farmers have giant windmills.

They cost half a million each--and pay for themselves every six months. I'd say that's cost effective.

The smaller household ones? Instead of paying your electric bill, you get a check from the power company each month.

So I'm gonna waste my money on one.




Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875