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The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 3:34:49 PM   
whatisthewhat


Posts: 43
Joined: 4/12/2011
Status: offline 		I read something the other day on feministing or some other feminist website about how the debate about abortion has, for feminists, changed from "abortion on demand without apology" to being apologetic about and ashamed of having had an abortion-- yet it must still remain legal.

I, too, have noticed that, rather than simply say abortion is a medical decision this (pretend or real) hand wringing among pro-choice advocates has become pervasive.

Advocates of choice, I am interested in your opinion. Are you truly in an "abortion only when medically necessary/rape&incest/it's a horrible decision" camp, or do you simply say, "It's none of my business" and move on? Somewhere in between?

Anti-choice advocates, this really is not a question for you. You can post your opinion, no problem. It's free speech, but my question is specific to those who are pro choice.
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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 3:37:43 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		For me I've always been in the "safe, legal and rare" camp. I truly believe the option has to be available to any woman at any time but would prefer that we improve access to alternatives and birth control so as to make it as rare as possible.

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 3:40:57 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		For me it's so simple it's almost a cliché - each and every woman's right to choose. No more. And absolutely no less.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/10/2011 3:41:45 PM >

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 3:53:59 PM   
whatisthewhat


Posts: 43
Joined: 4/12/2011
Status: offline 		I agree, Tweakabelle. I have grown alarmed by the numbers of those who would say that it is reprehensible unless you are raped or about to die. Why are women's lives so lowly valued? is what I've always wondered when it comes to this.

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 3:54:41 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 4:49:48 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		Safe legal and rare. When I can get pregnant, I'll demand the right to decide for other folks.

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 6:06:15 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: whatisthewhat

I agree, Tweakabelle. I have grown alarmed by the numbers of those who would say that it is reprehensible unless you are raped or about to die. Why are women's lives so lowly valued? is what I've always wondered when it comes to this.


The Crazy Religious Extremists who want to ban reproductive healthcare feel that since Eve was responsible for the downfall of Adam, they deserve whatever happens to them.

Yeah, I know. But they're crazy.

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 6:25:55 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: whatisthewhat

I read something the other day on feministing or some other feminist website about how the debate about abortion has, for feminists, changed from "abortion on demand without apology" to being apologetic about and ashamed of having had an abortion-- yet it must still remain legal.

I, too, have noticed that, rather than simply say abortion is a medical decision this (pretend or real) hand wringing among pro-choice advocates has become pervasive.

Advocates of choice, I am interested in your opinion. Are you truly in an "abortion only when medically necessary/rape&incest/it's a horrible decision" camp, or do you simply say, "It's none of my business" and move on? Somewhere in between?

Anti-choice advocates, this really is not a question for you. You can post your opinion, no problem. It's free speech, but my question is specific to those who are pro choice.


Actually, amongst young women that I encounter, they seem more able to admit that they have had one in mixed company with no abashment that I can see.

I have heard two women in the last year do so.... never had seen it in my life before, both were in the middle of classroom discussions (different classes)

edited to add...I am firmly pro choice until viable camp


< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/10/2011 6:27:58 PM >

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 6:38:44 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Yep exactly Julia. Oh and I have terminated a pregnancy, and afterwards I felt nothing but relief and gratitude that the choice was available.

What tweak, Luci and Julia said.


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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 6:40:05 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Yep exactly Julia. Oh and I have terminated a pregnancy, and afterwards I felt nothing but relief and gratitude that the choice was available.

What tweak, Luci and Julia said.



Yay for seeing a third

I do not think women should be embarrassed about it.

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 6:41:49 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

If she chooses not to have an abortion and forgot to take her pill, she gets into his pocket for at least eighteen years. At the very least, if it is a viable pregnancy and the Father is known, he should have the chance to take the child in the event she does not want it. If he wants it and she does not, he has to pay ALL expenses. That includes compensating her for her discomfort. She then signs off ALL Parental rights.


Termy, you are way out of line here. But let's leave aside all the moral and ethical reasons for that. Because there's a very simple practical reason why this is pie-in-the-sky stuff will never ever work. It goes like this:

If I was pregnant and considering what to do in a situation where the father-to-be could legally force me to carry to term, I wouldn't involve him in any of the decisions about the pregnancy. I wouldn't tell him zilch unless I was 100% certain he wanted to be around for a long long time and I wanted him around.

I wouldn't tell him I was pregnant. I wouldn't tell him I was considering an abortion. If I was stupid enough to tell him these things and he started to make noises about forcing me to carry to term, I'd go off and have an abortion quietly and just tell him I miscarried (if I ever felt the need to speak to him again, which, considering his attitude, would be a very big 'if' indeed).

It's not nice. It's not honest. But that is what I would do. I suspect that is what most women would do too. I suspect most women would feel that is the only option open to them in that situation. Some might regret it at some level or other. But I wouldn't feel the slightest guilt about it because the arrangements you are advocating are much more inhumane.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/10/2011 6:49:19 PM >

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 6:41:50 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks Julia. .




_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 6:50:11 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Yep exactly Julia. Oh and I have terminated a pregnancy, and afterwards I felt nothing but relief and gratitude that the choice was available.

What tweak, Luci and Julia said.



This

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 6:50:36 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

The one thing that will probably get me flamed is the Father's rights. If she chooses not to have an abortion and forgot to take her pill, she gets into his pocket for at least eighteen years. At the very least, if it is a viable pregnancy and the Father is known, he should have the chance to take the child in the event she does not want it. If he wants it and she does not, he has to pay ALL expenses. That includes compensating her for her discomfort. She then signs off ALL Parental rights.


Child support is not about the mother, it is about the child. If the child comes to term the father is free to sue for custody if he feels he can do a better job of parenting. It costs much more to raise a child than child support ever covers.


Secondly, women often choose to abort because the man that got them pregnant is abusive, and they do not want to bring a child into an unstable relationship. To put a woman in the position to be forced to carry to term by her abuser is unconscionable to me

Life is unfair in many ways both big and small. The unfairnesses you speak of seem somewhat small compared how unfair it would be if we changed it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 6:57:45 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
Status: offline 		I had an abortion in about 1972, not long after WA state made them legal. I was grateful that the option was there. I was stoopid to have gotten pregnant in the first place when I knew that I didn't want any more children. In fact I had a tubal ligation & the pregnancy was discovered at the followup appointment.

I lobbied for the abortion reform laws while I was pregnant with my daughter & the question that anti-abortionists would invariably ask was, "If abortion was legal right now, would you have aborted this child?" I told them that I didn't see abortion as an option for me, I was happy with my decision to get pregnant & carry to term, but I didn't think that it was morally correct for me to tell Susie Schwartz that she couldn't have an abortion should she want one.

I do have a problem with a woman using abortion as a form of birth control, like my best friend who had several abortions rather than preventing the pregnancies to begin with. The biggest problem I can see with that is it's not healthy for a woman's reproductive organs. But again, it wasn't my place to tell her she couldn't have an abortion.

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 7:14:27 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

I do have a problem with a woman using abortion as a form of birth control,


I don't. WHATEVER REASON a woman has for doing what she wants with her body is fine by me. Period.

Otherwise, I think you're on a slipperly slope. If it's ok to look down on a woman for XYZ, then that justifies those who don't like ABC DEF or GHI...



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 7:14:55 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

I didn't tell the man I was pregnant by anyway, and a lot of my friends didn't either.
I did, but I sure as hell wouldn't have if he had been legally able to force me to carry the pregnancy to term against my will. Tweak was dead on about that.


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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 7:17:14 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

I didn't tell the man I was pregnant by anyway, and a lot of my friends didn't either.
I did, but I sure as hell wouldn't have if he had been legally able to force me to carry the pregnancy to term against my will. Tweak was dead on about that.



Absolutely Wyld!


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 7:27:03 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

I do have a problem with a woman using abortion as a form of birth control,


I don't. WHATEVER REASON a woman has for doing what she wants with her body is fine by me. Period.

Otherwise, I think you're on a slipperly slope. If it's ok to look down on a woman for XYZ, then that justifies those who don't like ABC DEF or GHI...





Did you read the rest of the sentence???

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
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RE: The Abortion Debate - 6/10/2011 7:30:02 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

"It's none of my business" and move on


Says it all for me. Its not my decision.

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