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American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 10:33:32 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		How many of you think members of the House and Senate vote on bills based on how the big businesses that fund their campaigns for re-election want them to vote? What if American Citizens were allowed to vote on bills instead of the House and Senate? Do you think American Citizens would have voted against the bill to end tax breaks for companies that outsource and provide incentives for keeping jobs in the US? Do you think citizens voting on proposed bills would have a positive or negative effect on the US economy? Why?

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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 12:05:34 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		No, I dont think there is widespread voting solely based no coroporate contributions.
Yes, I think they would have voted to end tax breaks.....keeping jobs in the US.
Negative, because they don't have the knowledge to vote on them, for example, see one line above. They would have voted for them, and been dead wrong to do so.

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Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 12:35:52 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Here is a question for everyone, related to the one the OP posted.

What keeps some companies from outsourcing and moving production overseas while others leave?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 12:50:08 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Here is a question for everyone, related to the one the OP posted.

What keeps some companies from outsourcing and moving production overseas while others leave?


Impact on the bottom line, obv.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 1:12:07 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What if American Citizens were allowed to vote on bills instead of the House and Senate?



Ahhh... a dreamer. 

There are hundreds of bills that are voted on in Congress... and let's be honest, for the average working person, they just don't have the time/energy to stay informed on all these things -- that's why we elect people to Congress. This is THEIR JOB, and that's what "We The People" PAY THEM for -- which is why I get so fucking pissed off when I hear one of these idiots say something so fucking stupid like, "We have to pass the bill in order to find out what's in it"... fucking stupid cunt Pelosi... that's your damn job!!!

Maybe someday the technology/security will be there for "the people" to vote on select bills (or even elections... that'd certainly increase the number of people voting, huh?!!), but for now, it's in the hands of Congress -- hence the importance of voting for those that you feel represent you.





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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 1:12:54 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		That doesnt pass the smell test, willbe. If its cheap for one, it should be cheap for all. Or are you saying some get better write offs and deductions than others?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 1:16:35 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

"We have to pass the bill in order to find out what's in it"... fucking stupid cunt Pelosi... that's your damn job!!!


Now, now. In order to discover what was in the final bill, which had to go through reconciliation, BOTH House and Senate had to pass their versions. Then, once those bills were passed, the two sides put together a committee to determine how to best mesh what they had passed.

THAT is what Pelosi meant. No one knew what the final bill would be before Congress passed their respective bills. The House knew what the House was passing, it was written in their bill. The Senate knew what was in the Senate bill, again, written and provided.

The reconciliation process was by both House and Senate, both Republican and Democrat. If you dont like what is in the bill, the blame lays at all their feet.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 1:22:55 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

That doesnt pass the smell test, willbe. If its cheap for one, it should be cheap for all. Or are you saying some get better write offs and deductions than others?


Cheap for one, cheap for all...not even close. You must not even have thought about it before you said that.

Yes to your last statement. Plus it isnt just taxes. Regulations impact different business disparately, and the nature of some businesses doesnt lend itself to outsourcing due to the need to be close to your market, your suppliers, how closely managed the group needs to be, etc. At the extremes, its easy to outsource programming, its impossible to outsource McDonalds. Theres a whole range in between.



_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 1:26:36 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

...BOTH... THAT...



 hee hee hee... now I've got you using caps too!!!







< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 6/13/2011 1:27:01 PM >

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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 1:26:49 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I realize there is a wide range of businesses. But how do some in the same industry remain, and some insist they cant make a living and leave?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 1:29:42 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I realize there is a wide range of businesses. But how do some in the same industry remain, and some insist they cant make a living and leave?


Depends on the size of the biz, really... what I mean is, if a company can save a dollar on 1,000 parts, then that's a fairly small savings -- and wouldn't likely warrant going overseas.  If, however, they can save a dollar on 1 million parts... well, you get the idea.




< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 6/13/2011 1:31:49 PM >

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 1:30:14 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Do you think citizens voting on proposed bills would have a positive or negative effect on the US economy? Why?


Extremely negative. They have no idea of the implications generally, or often even the facts, preferring emotional hearsay.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 1:38:01 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
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quote:

Yes, I think they would have voted to end tax breaks.....keeping jobs in the US.


There is ZERO, that's spell Z-E-R-O (look it up it means a NULL, nothing, rien <cause you must be talking about france or some model breathing americans aren't familiar with>) evidence that during the past decade these tax cuts. The past decade has been the highest period of job loss to outside the US in it's history. Just ask any person who's worked in high tech in the last 20 years.
    What's next on the list of scare tactics to keep that bullshit tax break going? Y'all gonna go middle east on us and strap on the suicide vests?


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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 1:41:34 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

At the extremes, its easy to outsource programming, its impossible to outsource McDonalds. Theres a whole range in between.


OH... THANK FUCKING GOD FOR THAT... I'll have the cob salad  with the Paul Newman LIBERAL Vinaigrette ... make it snappy bitch

Edited to insert the smiley I forgot


< Message edited by SternSkipper -- 6/13/2011 1:42:50 PM >

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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 1:48:09 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
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From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

Do you think citizens voting on proposed bills would have a positive or negative effect on the US economy? Why?

Extremely negative. They have no idea of the implications generally, or often even the facts, preferring emotional hearsay.

What a choice, emotional hearsay versus corporate bribery.

K.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 2:27:08 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I realize there is a wide range of businesses. But how do some in the same industry remain, and some insist they cant make a living and leave?


Theres also a wide range of businesses within an industry. Taxes impact them all differently depending on profitability in general, where they stand wrt accelerated depreciation etc. Different companies have different deals with suppliers, and may benefit more from maintaining those relationships. Some are simply not large enough to gain much cost efficiency. Some may be union shops that would save more by offshoring to a non-union environment than one that is non-union or in a right to work state would save. Contractual relationships with buyers (eg turnaround time on new orders etc.) may make it difficult to offshore. There are dozens if not hundreds of considerations that impact companies differently.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 2:33:48 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

Theres also a wide range of businesses within an industry. Taxes impact them all differently depending on profitability in general, where they stand wrt accelerated depreciation etc. Different companies have different deals with suppliers, and may benefit more from maintaining those relationships. Some are simply not large enough to gain much cost efficiency. Some may be union shops that would save more by offshoring to a non-union environment than one that is non-union or in a right to work state would save. Contractual relationships with buyers (eg turnaround time on new orders etc.) may make it difficult to offshore. There are dozens if not hundreds of considerations that impact companies differently.


And since these businesses are DETRACTING from the economy, they should give up any tax incentives they get to encourage the contribution they are entrusted to make, in order to warrant their taking advantage of these incentives. And don't rattle off a bunch of BS on this one YOU KNOW most of the companies offshoring our economy would fucking freak right the fuck out if they were stripped of the tax breaks they are getting for contributing zip to our economic future. What they do would only really be legit if they moved the fuck out of the US altogether.


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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 3:17:05 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Theres also a wide range of businesses within an industry. Taxes impact them all differently depending on profitability in general, where they stand wrt accelerated depreciation etc. Different companies have different deals with suppliers, and may benefit more from maintaining those relationships. Some are simply not large enough to gain much cost efficiency. Some may be union shops that would save more by offshoring to a non-union environment than one that is non-union or in a right to work state would save. Contractual relationships with buyers (eg turnaround time on new orders etc.) may make it difficult to offshore. There are dozens if not hundreds of considerations that impact companies differently.


And since these businesses are DETRACTING from the economy, they should give up any tax incentives they get to encourage the contribution they are entrusted to make, in order to warrant their taking advantage of these incentives. And don't rattle off a bunch of BS on this one YOU KNOW most of the companies offshoring our economy would fucking freak right the fuck out if they were stripped of the tax breaks they are getting for contributing zip to our economic future. What they do would only really be legit if they moved the fuck out of the US altogether.




Preaching to the choir. I dont think any company should get special tax breaks or subsidies (including "green" nonsense, and "shovel ready" where the only thing being shoveled is Obama's excrement.) Keep government policy the fuck out of the market except to police malfeasance.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to SternSkipper)
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RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 3:19:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		It requires a cap or two, at times, to educate.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: American People vs US House and Senate - 6/13/2011 3:40:58 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Preaching to the choir. I dont think any company should get special tax breaks or subsidies (including "green" nonsense, and "shovel ready" where the only thing being shoveled is Obama's excrement.) Keep government policy the fuck out of the market except to police malfeasance.


Yeah? Well where's that republican initiative to take these incentives for away? You're certainly articulate enough to start one. And if what conservatives say about being on the same sheet of music, or at least more so than the liberals, this should be child's play for you guys the GOP has a HUGE squeaky wheel thing going for itself right now.
    I'm sorry, I guess my liberal bias and independent voting status is preventing me from seeing the words in News Papers or on television (yes even on fox)... cause see, I'd be expecting "Bold moves on the part of the republican house to eliminate corporate welfare" which would be the HEADLINES around the damned world if they were even close to that. But we both know the 'choir' doesn't know that tune.
   So when do the red exploding vests show up in the retail stores?
I am dying to see AZBM in one as he says "goddamned Liberal Haters" and blows himself up at a daycare center or something like that.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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