RE: American People vs US House and Senate (Full Version)

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SternSkipper -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 3:43:43 PM)

quote:

Preaching to the choir. I dont think any company should get special tax breaks or subsidies (including "green" nonsense, and "shovel ready" where the only thing being shoveled is Obama's excrement.) Keep government policy the fuck out of the market except to police malfeasance.


And when the FUCK have I ever used the shovel ready or green bs in my posts. Alternative energy is the fucking future whether you like it or not. But spare me the rhetoric when it comes to the catch phrases. I subscribe to none of them, and I think you know that.

I will say a prayer that the tea Party doesn't issue you a vest[:D]




willbeurdaddy -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 3:45:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Preaching to the choir. I dont think any company should get special tax breaks or subsidies (including "green" nonsense, and "shovel ready" where the only thing being shoveled is Obama's excrement.) Keep government policy the fuck out of the market except to police malfeasance.


Yeah? Well where's that republican initiative to take these incentives for away?


Read Ryan's proposal. It goes a long way toward simplification, removal of tax inequities and lower corporate tax rates.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 4:05:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

No, I dont think there is widespread voting solely based no coroporate contributions.
Yes, I think they would have voted to end tax breaks.....keeping jobs in the US.
Negative, because they don't have the knowledge to vote on them, for example, see one line above. They would have voted for them, and been dead wrong to do so.


Who would keeping decent paying jobs in the US negatively affect besides CEO's that already have more money than they will ever need? A few years ago, one of my college professors was talking about how inexpensive products are because of outsourcing. I asked him what would happen when American salaries dropped so far that people couldn't afford to buy even cheap foreign made products. He didn't have an answer. I would have no problem with outsourcing if prices on everything, including the cost of living dropped along with salaries. But that's not happening. The price of utilities is increasing, not decreasing. Most landlords aren't dropping the price of rent. The price of houses has dropped, but not enough to make buying a house affordable for minimum wage workers. I'm prepared to change my mind about outsourcing as soon as the price of new cars drops to $5,000 and the price of new 3 bedroom 2 bath houses with full basements and 2 car garages in middle class neighborhoods drops to $35,000.




SternSkipper -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 4:28:53 PM)

quote:

I'm prepared to change my mind about outsourcing as soon as the price of new cars drops to $5,000 and the price of new 3 bedroom 2 bath houses with full basements and 2 car garages in middle class neighborhoods drops to $35,000.


That's another thing we're told outsourcing makes products affordable. Which is total bullshit. The consumer price index always goes up and the profits creep up at twice the rate on the corporate side. And then we get the RAP, Corporations have a right to a profit. Sure, but not at THE TAX PAYERS EXPENSE!!!
  And I think it's real unfortunate they have our friends and neighbors from across the street in many cases propped up as pablum eaters regurgitating the total nonsense economics they preach to them.





SternSkipper -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 4:42:12 PM)

quote:

Read Ryan's proposal. It goes a long way toward simplification, removal of tax inequities and lower corporate tax rates.


Oh PLEASE ... stop pretending you are the only person left on the face of the earth that reads...

I have a better idea why don't you go to Paul Ryan's magical plan and cull out the SPECIFIC ( <-- Pay attention to that word) PROPOSALS to end tax incentives to companies off shoring their employee base. His plan is pretty fucking specific when attacking things like food stamps (which I happen to know is fucking necessary from the FULL WORKDAY I donate each week at the food pantry in my community... The people I see are about 75%tax payers... they aren't welfare crooks... How do I know? It's a relatively small community and I know em from places like boy scouts and fishing ... a LOT of them work and it just isn't enough). Like turning medicare into vouchers and at the same time throwing higher premiums at people who have worked all their lives.... REALLY Fucking FAIR...
   So you want to make these allusions to Ryan as some economic messiah? Show us the beef. Remember, you are making the assertion. And I don't remember seeing much of ANYTHING that looked like more than superficial rhetoric.
Show us, we're all dying to see how Ryan is going to "go a long way" to solve tax inequities[:D]




thompsonx -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 4:45:35 PM)

quote:

Read Ryan's proposal. It goes a long way toward simplification, removal of tax inequities and lower corporate tax rates.


You want to lower corporate tax rates?
Where would you set the corporate tax rate ?




defiantbadgirl -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 5:29:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Read Ryan's proposal. It goes a long way toward simplification, removal of tax inequities and lower corporate tax rates.


Republicans like Ryan want to put caps on medicaid so old people get kicked out of nursing homes when they exceed their caps. Why do corporations that continue to outsource jobs knowing it's destroying the country deserve lower taxes? There are far more poor and middle class Americans than rich Americans. Therefore, the only way outsourcing will benefit the US economy is if prices on everything, including the cost of living are lowered along with diminishing salaries. Either prices need to be lowered or outsourcing needs to stop. Otherwise, the US economy will collapse. Members of Congress are too worried about who is going to fund their next campaign to care. American citizens can't be bribed because there are too many of us.




SilverMark -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 5:38:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Read Ryan's proposal. It goes a long way toward simplification, removal of tax inequities and lower corporate tax rates.


You want to lower corporate tax rates?
Where would you set the corporate tax rate ?


I would not be adverse to lower corporate tax rates if it was somehow linked to Real Job Creation.
At this point in time even for the smaller businesses I run, if my taxes on profits were lowered, I keep them as profit, how many companies do you think would do the same?
It could mean even larger profits without any job growth.
Unfortunately, we have learned to run companies with many less people but with higher efficiencies, and higher output.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 5:59:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Unfortunately, we have learned to run companies with many less people but with higher efficiencies, and higher output.


This was not a problem we faced during The Great Depression. Neither was outsourcing. Some people think a total collapse is needed to straighten out this mess. My question to them is, with technology and outsourcing, how will we recover? Will recovery ever be possible or will the coming depression be permanent?




thompsonx -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 6:28:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Read Ryan's proposal. It goes a long way toward simplification, removal of tax inequities and lower corporate tax rates.


You want to lower corporate tax rates?
Where would you set the corporate tax rate ?


I would not be adverse to lower corporate tax rates if it was somehow linked to Real Job Creation.

We both know that 35% is the number that the corporations and thier proponents complane about but we also bth know that almost no corporation pays anything close to that. Many of the largest pay nothing, less than 10% is quite common.
My question is, if there were no exceptions what do you feel is the appropriate number?


At this point in time even for the smaller businesses I run, if my taxes on profits were lowered, I keep them as profit, how many companies do you think would do the same?
It could mean even larger profits without any job growth.

We both know that tax cuts go into the pocket of the recipiant and not towards lower prices.

Unfortunately, we have learned to run companies with many less people but with higher efficiencies, and higher output.


I do not believe anyone except the ludites would be against higher effeciencies.





Kirata -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 6:58:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

We both know that tax cuts go into the pocket of the recipiant and not towards lower prices.

And we both know whose pockets those corporate taxes come out of, no matter what the percentage is.

K.




SternSkipper -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 7:00:29 PM)

The Brookings Institute has a few words to say about Mr. Ryans UBIQUITOUS 'plan'... This one shouldn't be too hard to digest... They've only been right on just about every analysis they've done (course, watch em get called socialist after this):

http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2011/04/12/ryan%E2%80%99s-tax-plan-is-not-1986-style-reform/

Ryan’s Tax Plan is not 1986-Style Reform Eric Toder | Posted on April 12, 2011, 10:51 am Charles Krauthammer (Washington Post, April 8, 2011) writes that the “most scurrilous” criticism of House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan’s fiscal plan is that it would cut taxes for the rich. This would, he says, be akin to making the same claim against the Ronald Reagan-Bill Bradley 1986 tax reform. Krauthammer goes on to assert that Ryan’s plan is “classic tax reform” that … broadens the base by eliminating loopholes. The facts are otherwise. The Ryan plan, at least what we know of it, would inarguably cut taxes for the rich. It in no way resembles the 1980s tax reforms of either President Reagan or Senator Bill Bradley and Representative Dick Gephardt. And it most assuredly fails to eliminate loopholes. Ryan proposes to reduce the top individual and corporate tax rates from 35 percent to 25 percent. And his plan does call for eliminating tax expenditures in general terms. But the Ryan budget does not offer a single specific proposal to eliminate any tax break. This is hardly a repeat of the original 1980s tax reform plans. The Bradley-Gephardt and Reagan tax plans differed in detail, but the original versions of both plans included specific provisions for eliminating tax preferences to pay for rate reductions and keep the income distribution fixed. In contrast, the Ryan blueprint explicitly proposes large rate cuts, but leaves the heavy lifting of paying for the rate cuts to the tax-writing committees. It gets worse if you look at the detailed tax plan Ryan released last year—the “Roadmap for America’s Future.” That plan would also have reduced the top individual rate to 25 percent for individual taxpayers willing to give up most of their deductions. But big users of preferences could have chosen to keep their deductions and continue to pay at current rates. And the Roadmap also would have eliminated all taxes on corporate profits, interest income, dividends, capital gains, and inheritances and made up some of the lost revenue with a new consumption tax. As a result, the Roadmap would have placed almost the entire tax burden on wage earners. The Tax Policy Center last year estimated it would reduce overall annual tax payments to less than 17 percent of GDP and cut tax burdens for families in the top 1 percent of the income distribution to less than half of what they would pay even if all the Bush tax cuts were extended. The 1986 Tax Reform Act also sharply reduced top tax rates, from 50 percent to 28 percent for individuals and from 46 to 34 percent for corporations. But, in contrast to Ryan’s Roadmap, the Reagan-Bradley reform eliminated significant preferences for investment income enjoyed by high-income individuals and corporations. Most notably, it taxed capital gains as ordinary income (dividends were already taxed that way), eliminated the investment tax credit and closed shelters then commonly used by high-income investors to escape tax. In a similar vein, the recent plans by the President’s Fiscal Commission and the Bipartisan Policy Center’s debt reduction task force would also balance cuts in tax rates with elimination of preferences for capital gains and dividends and removal or paring back of other tax benefits tilted towards the high end of the distribution. Until we see the full details of the tax bill that the Ways and Means committee introduces, we cannot say how the House plan would affect either revenue or the distribution of the tax burden. But nothing suggests House Republicans are considering anything remotely resembling a repeat of the Reagan-Bradley tax reform act. The late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan once famously remarked that “everyone is entitled to his opinion, but no one is entitled to his own facts.” Despite what Krauthammer says, Ryan’s plan is not Reagan-Bradley. All he has shown us is tax rate cuts for high-income individuals and corporations. We’ll see if the current Congress comes up with something that really does close preferences at the top end to pay for Ryan’s highly skewed rate reductions. That would be a welcome reversal from what we have seen so far.




Kirata -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 7:06:45 PM)


Paragraphs are your friend.

K.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 7:54:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Read Ryan's proposal. It goes a long way toward simplification, removal of tax inequities and lower corporate tax rates.


Oh PLEASE ... stop pretending you are the only person left on the face of the earth that reads...


oh PLEASE, stop pretending you read it.




SternSkipper -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 10:48:21 PM)

quote:

Paragraphs are your friend.


There's a link to the original text... Tell the author
[:D]




SternSkipper -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/13/2011 11:17:33 PM)

quote:

oh PLEASE, stop pretending you read it.


Check your inbox, I sent you the entire text of what I have read so far.
If you give me your phone number I'll read it to you over the phone.
Trust me, it doesn't have any detail regarding changes in taxation except fairly vague references.
  But you can judge for yourself





Kirata -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/14/2011 7:05:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper
quote:

Paragraphs are your friend.

There's a link to the original text... Tell the author [:D]

He already knows... his has paragraph breaks. [:D]

K.





SilverMark -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/14/2011 8:26:13 AM)

Charles Krauthammer<-----anything he is against...I am more than likely FOR!




kdsub -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/14/2011 9:31:39 AM)

I think the average US citizen...me included...does not have the time or resources to determine the worth of most legislation before our Congress. Issues would be decided by knee-jerk decisions based on information feed to us by the media and special interest groups.

Our forefathers were wise…they devised a system that would ensure legislation would not be easy to pass and would take time allowing close inspection of the bills. Otherwise they wanted constantly opposing views based on political parties.

But it can be frustrating.

Butch




SternSkipper -> RE: American People vs US House and Senate (6/14/2011 10:36:33 AM)

quote:

He already knows... his has paragraph breaks.


Then your issue is with Bill Gates ... see if he'll take your call... the GOP debate is no longer on. He should have time.




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