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British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/13/2011 8:06:29 PM   
Owner59


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http://www.latimes.com/health/la-fg-britain-health-care-20110613,0,1237142.story

Britain is now embroiled in a healthcare argument of its own, prompted by a proposed shake-up of the NHS. And the phrase on everyone's lips is "American-style," which may not be as catchy as the "death panels" that Palin attributed to socialized medicine but which, over here, inspires pretty much the same kind of terror.
Ask a Briton to describe "American-style" healthcare, and you'll hear a catalog of horrors that include grossly expensive and unnecessary medical procedures and a privatized system that favors the rich. For a people accustomed to free healthcare for all, regardless of income, the fact that millions of their cousins across the Atlantic have no insurance and can't afford decent treatment is a farce as well as a tragedy.

But critics here warn that a similarly bleak future may await Britain if a government plan to put more power in the hands of doctors and introduce more competition into the NHS succeeds — privatization by stealth, they say.


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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/13/2011 8:21:47 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Its called, " Privatization because we cant fucking afford it" not "privatization by stealth". Canada is facing the same problem.

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/13/2011 9:02:59 PM   
Sanity


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Their failing systems should serve as a warning to those who for whatever crazy reason think their systems are the way to go

Should have served as a warning a long time ago

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Its called, " Privatization because we cant fucking afford it" not "privatization by stealth". Canada is facing the same problem.


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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/13/2011 9:13:11 PM   
Lucylastic


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failing, LMAO at least weve had them for more than your life span
People like you are too shit scared to even try it, just in case some "rotton scummy lowlife" gets free stuff
you have no room to say they have failed, they will evolve, they will change, they will not end.
Two tier is becaus greed makes people think they are entitled to better care.
The asshole businesses have their hooks in our politial shit bags too.
Terror isnt the word I would use
Disgust doesnt really do it justice
horrified , nah thats too gentle too.
enjoy getting ripped off by insurance companies, pharma companies and hospitals...

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/13/2011 9:57:33 PM   
Owner59


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Not sure if failure is being defined correctly.

Everyone is covered in the UK,that`s not failure.That`s a stunning success.

A two(or three) tier system, where over 40 million folks go uncovered, is a failure.

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/13/2011 10:06:29 PM   
slvemike4u


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Not really Owner....all is good as long as you are not one of the 40 million.

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/13/2011 10:36:29 PM   
provfivetine


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The British health care system is the poster child for a deteriorating nationalistic health service. Everyone may be covered, but when you pool everyone in the same risk pool - while doing nothing to increase supply of physicians, health care equipment, prescription drugs, etc - you increase costs and quality will deteriorate. A great example is looking at US vs UK survival rates amongst women diagnosed with breast cancer - one of the most common cancers.

Also, America's health care system isn't to be confused with a free market anyways. The government has distorted the market process for the last 50 years by changing the tax code, subsidizing health care services, mandating that nearly everything be covered by insurance, etc.

Privatization of the American health care system won't come because someone gives a fancy speech or because the socialists finally reject the concept of public ownership. It will come as a result of bankruptcy and a financial crisis.

< Message edited by provfivetine -- 6/13/2011 10:37:31 PM >

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 3:36:33 AM   
Aneirin


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Yes, our NHS is being threatened by a bunch of tory crooks, as increasing competition forces one of two things, a decrease in service offered, or employees working for less, the latter being I can see a lot of professionals migrating from the NHS into private care where the money is, to be replaced by more immigrant professionals who will work for less.

The last tory government privatised the crown jewels of National industry under the banner of  the same, this increasing competition thing, but many will tell what we have now some fifteen or twenty years later is a shadow of it's former self and guess what, increased prices and most of our commodities in foreign hands.

It's a scam, a tory scam to make more money for their pals.

Health care by it's very nature should not be a profit making organisation, but perhaps exist as a black hole, a black hole where cash goes and sinks to ensure the health of those that work in the country, without which one has an unhealthy and disgruntled national work force, which leads to other problems, increased time off work etc, which then goes on to effect the nations GDP.

As an example of  the mentioned increase in immigrant professionals in the NHS, my NHS dentist is Romanian and we communicate via an assistant who is also skilled as an interpreter and basic English, but she is getting better at English and is a superb no nonsense dentist, she just gets the job done without any faffing around. T'is interesting as I am observant never can I spot medical company freebies in her surgery, unlike my GP who now knows to clear his desk of them when I am on the books to see him, the scrote goes on holiday a lot though.

But whatever your politics, we need to be aware and protect what we have, because if we don't political greed will take it from us and then perhaps we might have a system in the UK where we are just like the Americans, denied adequate healthcare if we are poor.


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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 4:17:05 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Yes, our NHS is being threatened by a bunch of tory crooks, as increasing competition forces one of two things, a decrease in service offered, or employees working for less, the latter being I can see a lot of professionals migrating from the NHS into private care where the money is, to be replaced by more immigrant professionals who will work for less.

The last tory government privatised the crown jewels of National industry under the banner of  the same, this increasing competition thing, but many will tell what we have now some fifteen or twenty years later is a shadow of it's former self and guess what, increased prices and most of our commodities in foreign hands.

It's a scam, a tory scam to make more money for their pals.

Health care by it's very nature should not be a profit making organisation, but perhaps exist as a black hole, a black hole where cash goes and sinks to ensure the health of those that work in the country, without which one has an unhealthy and disgruntled national work force, which leads to other problems, increased time off work etc, which then goes on to effect the nations GDP.

As an example of  the mentioned increase in immigrant professionals in the NHS, my NHS dentist is Romanian and we communicate via an assistant who is also skilled as an interpreter and basic English, but she is getting better at English and is a superb no nonsense dentist, she just gets the job done without any faffing around. T'is interesting as I am observant never can I spot medical company freebies in her surgery, unlike my GP who now knows to clear his desk of them when I am on the books to see him, the scrote goes on holiday a lot though.

But whatever your politics, we need to be aware and protect what we have, because if we don't political greed will take it from us and then perhaps we might have a system in the UK where we are just like the Americans, denied adequate healthcare if we are poor.



Whenever I read posts such as this, I wonder what the left in the UK are thinking. Were they all asleep during the Blair/Brown years. The coal industry has been in decline since WW1. The major decline in coal and manufacturing output started after WW2...... Liverpool were closing factories at a rate of knots well before Thatcher came to office. New Labour privatized more jobs than Thatcher....fact. New labour heavily outsourced many NHS jobs and operations....Fact. We are still dealing with the fall out from poor deals brookered between Brown and private companies with regards to building new hospitals under the PPI system. If you want to make claims about the NHS and privatisation, at least get your facts right.

I can verify all my claims if anyone has doubts, but just as Obama isnt to Blame for the Bush deficit, cameron isnt to blame for Blair/Browns.

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 6:26:23 AM   
Aneirin


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Odd thing is, I used to be a toryite, I used to vote them in just like the rest of my then middle class family, but poverty showed me a different side, and all those institutions I once believed were in place for the poor turn out not to be when you are poor; fact.

There is nothing like actual experience, because then the rhetoric fades into insignificance. As many have said in the past and still do so, politicians should spend sometime at the bottom tiers of society for them to understand what their policies actually do to those tiers.

But of those that make such policies as attempting to privatise the NHS, do they actually use the NHS, you know, wait on those waiting lists until their appointment comes up, or do they go private and get the job done pdq ?

Again it takes experience to understand.

But as you have mentioned coal, hmm, seems we are going to have to buy it in from overseas when heating oil becomes too expensive, as part of the crushing of the miners, was the crushing of the mines themselves, of which there is vast seams of coal left under this land, but the mines are now screwed, short sightedness if there was any, but I suspect what happened was nore personal rather than economic, the crushing of the worker's unions for having the audacity of holding the government to ransom over whatever conditions they were seeking to change. Not saying the unions were always right, but what they represented was  the common worker united as a force against unfair government policy.

Now what do we have since the Thatcher years, piss poor common worker representation against government, probably why whatever the government does we just take on the chin, because the unity of the past has been broken up, dispersed and distracted, the sale of council houses was one such move to break up the opposition strong holds and breed tories, otherwise known as property owners.

It's all a game and currently, the tories are winning, but how far will they go bfore the workers look up from their sport, cheap foreign holidays, ipods, celebrity worship and computer games and realise they have been screwed by a mentality from the past. Rich versus poor as it has always been, a class war.

But the decline of British industry was to be expected as the British Empire faded, but the trouble is with fading empires what does one do with all that skill, expertise and resources when it no longer has a use, oh, I know, sell it, no not the workers, stuff them, they can do something else, but the resources will always have a market.

The problems we face now I believe is because of Empire, you know, that thing that made the wealthy wealthier, elevated the expectations of the poor and pissed off a lot of people around the world.




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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 12:34:02 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Odd thing is, I used to be a toryite,


Are you sure you didnt use to be Tory Amos?

which reminds me, this board hasnt had any Rick Roll's since Ive been here. Sure would be more relevant than Brain's links.

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 12:47:38 PM   
Politesub53


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If you know your English history, the Empire did indeed enrich the poor. Sure the fat cats got fat but that doesnt discount the fact there was massive employment growth. Many towns had whole areas where industrialists built homes for the workers. By todays standard low fare housing, but by the standards of the time, living luxury.

Coal became cheaper to by from overseas, both North Sea gas  and the cost of oil made coal fired power stations both costly and a health hazzard, due to smog. I wont get into the part Scargill played with the demise of mining but it wasnt all due to Thatcher as everyone likes to claim. You seem happy with the unions being able to bring down elected governments, I am not. Even the Miners strike was undemocratic but led instead by Scargill and his ilk. People like him screwed the working class over and the worst of it is he is still living rent free at the expense of his former members. The left love to scream class war, wether this is Lord Prescott or the current Oxbridge elite running New Labour.

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 12:54:02 PM   
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‘Detriments’ you call us. ‘Detriments’! Well, I remind you that it was detriments like us that made this bloody Empire and the Izzat of the Raj!


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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 1:58:21 PM   
Real0ne


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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 2:05:49 PM   
mnottertail


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You're familiar with the reference, and its import?

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 4:53:38 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You're familiar with the reference, and its import?



Not many people know that.

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 5:07:47 PM   
Lucylastic


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hahahahhaha love ittt

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 7:55:23 PM   
mnottertail


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I’ve an educated taste in whiskey and women and waistcoats and bill o’fares—though I’ve had few chances to exercise it lately. (with growing anger)

Because they that govern spend all their time making up new laws to keep men like you and me from getting anywhere.(now quite beside himself)

And whose loss is it, in the long run?

Oi?

Why, England’s, of course. If such as we was given our heads, it’s not seventy millions she’d be making in revenues, but seven hundred millions!

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 10:18:34 PM   
popeye1250


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"We have to pass this bill so we can see what's in it."
Can you blame them?

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RE: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - 6/14/2011 10:19:44 PM   
mnottertail


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no, they must deal with cabbages rotting in the sun....

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