RE: Freedom in the 50 States (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 2:57:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Libertarians would argue that it is perfectly ok for an employer to only hire men or Baptists or smokers or Republican party members. You're arguing that it wouldn't be ok for an employer to only hire union members or make union membership a condition of employment which just doesn't jive.

It's a false dilemma.

Employer can hire whoever he wants (Baptists, guys in chicken suits, whatever). His employees can form a union to negotiate with him. But they can't contract in a way that would preclude employment from (Baptists, guys in chicken suits, whatever) who aren't members of the union or who don't want to join it.

Just academically, yanno.

K.



thompsonx -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:00:01 PM)

quote:

Hey, I agree with both of you on that. No dispute at all. Certain laws are necessary to maintain responsible and civil interchange. But wouldn't you be inclined to admit that a lot of laws go way beyond that?

K.


Which ones do you personally find odious?



Kirata -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:02:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Which ones do you personally find odious?

Same answer as before.

K.



juliaoceania -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:04:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

He thinks telling people that if they want the benefit of a union, that they have to pay the dues, is unfair. He thinks making people join a union is unfair. He thinks that this keeps people from freely associating.

What a piece of work you are! Who the fuck are you to tell people what I think? Do you fancy yourself some kind of fortune-teller?

I recommend you abandon the practice of putting words in my mouth unless you've got quotes to back them up.

K.




I was going by the information you posted.... if I was mistaken, please accept my apology and tell me how I was incorrect in my assumptions.



Kirata -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:19:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I was going by the information you posted.... if I was mistaken, please accept my apology and tell me how I was incorrect in my assumptions.

Sure. The topic opener posted a recently published "Freedom Index" and observed (without comment) that, "Comparisons to state by state rankings on other measures would seem to have some potential for discussion."

Now you show me where I ever said, anywhere, any of things that you claim that "I think."

K.



Musicmystery -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:21:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

...don't be so quick to assume



Pot meet Kettle. [8|]



In this case, the entire quote is relevant, not just a snipped phrase.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Not at all--don't be so quick to assume the entire world is fighting you.

Doesn't matter which way it turns...it's still a set of ideological assumptions, not objective reality.

The name calling I'll just ignore.




juliaoceania -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:22:48 PM)

What, do you want blood? I apologized to you, either accept that or don't, but there is no need to beat a dead fucking horse.

If you do not want to say what your opinions are, fine by me, but I am not going to apologize further, I did not kill your cat for crying out loud




thompsonx -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:33:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx



"Excuse me... Excuse me... Mr. Postman... I didn't order this bag of moronic bullshit -- that goes to thompsonx's house ! ! !"

[8|]




quote:

:

I felt the outcome for certain states that have been traditionally RED or BLUE meaningful.


quote:


"traditionally red or blue states...
For fucks sake could you please come to the forum with some grasp of the subject before you post such moronic tripe.
Red and blue states as used by the news media to indicatate incumbent and challenger. This was in 1976. Raygun ronnie's win of 44 states prompted one well known reporter to remark that the election map looked like a swiming pool...blue for reagan. It has only been since 2000 that the two parties have opted to claim colors...11 years hardly makes a tradition...funny thing is that around the world the color scheem is reversed... red for liberals and blue for conservatives.


You seem rather proud of your self imposed ignorance



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:35:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


You seem rather... ignorant. [8|]




thompsonx -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:37:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Which ones do you personally find odious?

Same answer as before.

K.



Perhaps it is my failing eyesight but I am unable to find your response to me on this question in this thread. Would you tell me what the post number it is and I will go look.
thanx



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:37:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery



The ideological assumptions were yours.




thompsonx -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:38:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


You seem rather... ignorant. [8|]





I could not agree more but none of it is self imposed



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:41:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


You can't count to 11 without your zipper open, can you?

[8|]



juliaoceania -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:43:36 PM)

You still refuse to use the quote function properly so that we know what it is you are responding to, which makes most of your post appear nonsensical and random...but then again, maybe they are



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:46:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania



Communicate with someone else... I could care less what you think. [8|]




Kirata -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:52:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

What, do you want blood? I apologized to you, either accept that or don't, but there is no need to beat a dead fucking horse.

Actually, you asked me to tell you -- if you were mistaken -- how you were incorrect in your assumptions.

if I was mistaken, please accept my apology and tell me how I was incorrect in my assumptions.

So I did. If you don't like it, next time don't leave your dead horse in the road and ask me to run over it. [:D]

As for apologizing, thanks, but yanno... we're okay. No biggie. Shit happens.

K.



juliaoceania -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 3:55:18 PM)

I respect your posts on this board, even though you often disagree with me. You are one of the most civil people on here, and I appreciate that.



Kirata -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 4:08:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Perhaps it is my failing eyesight but I am unable to find your response to me on this question in this thread. Would you tell me what the post number it is and I will go look.

Yanno, I'm beginning to think that I've totally underestimated your sense of humor. [:D]

But if you're serious, I'm sorry. Actually, I didn't respond. Honestly, I don't have a ready-to-type list of laws I chew on as being over-bearing or over-intrusive. I just try to enjoy my life and let things be. When someone brought up the war on recreational drugs in another thread, I put in my two cents. That would be one example. But I prefer to count my blessings.

K.



thompsonx -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 4:24:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Perhaps it is my failing eyesight but I am unable to find your response to me on this question in this thread. Would you tell me what the post number it is and I will go look.

Yanno, I'm beginning to think that I've totally underestimated your sense of humor. [:D]

But if you're serious, I'm sorry. Actually, I didn't respond. Honestly, I don't have a ready-to-type list of laws I chew on as being over-bearing or over-intrusive. I just try to enjoy my life and let things be. When someone brought up the war on recreational drugs in another thread, I put in my two cents. That would be one example. But I prefer to count my blessings.

K.


Thanx, I was beginning to think that I was going to have to spring for some new glasses.[;)]



DomKen -> RE: Freedom in the 50 States (6/16/2011 4:28:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Libertarians would argue that it is perfectly ok for an employer to only hire men or Baptists or smokers or Republican party members. You're arguing that it wouldn't be ok for an employer to only hire union members or make union membership a condition of employment which just doesn't jive.

It's a false dilemma.

Employer can hire whoever he wants (Baptists, guys in chicken suits, whatever). His employees can form a union to negotiate with him. But they can't contract in a way that would preclude employment from (Baptists, guys in chicken suits, whatever) who aren't members of the union or who don't want to join it.

Just academically, yanno.

K.

The employees negotiated a contract with the employer. The employer was free to negotiate as well so he presumably received something he wanted in exchange for a closed shop. There is simply no way you can make being in favor of "right to work" laws match up to actual libertarianism.

Would you also say the employer cannot hire strictly Baptists if that is what the union negotiated?



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