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RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 11/8/2004 4:05:19 PM   
Nvernilla


Posts: 303
Joined: 10/1/2004
Status: offline 		LOL No Cal

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 11/9/2004 10:03:33 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		One of the frustrating things I've found about internet chat rooms (Roleplay D/s and Gor rooms are the worst culprits) are the immediate expectation of knowing your 'role' - and automatic assumptions that are made when the proper answer doesn't come. Unfortunately, many people are on this site (and others like it) because they are looking to learn more about the lifestyle - thus, naturally chat rooms are a place to start.

I know a couple, where the man is supportive, caring, and obedient to his girlfriend. She is aggressive, demanding, and very domineering to everyone around her. Her boyfriend feels lucky to call her his 'slave.' Is this wrong?

Duh, of course not - it doesn't matter one whit to me what they call each other. The important thing is that they are happy with the relationship - nobody else's opinion is worth a hill of beans.

Having said that, if we stop looking at D/s as some mysterious cult with a secret handshake, and approach it from a perspective of simply giving the man in question information about this type of relationship... and then let things work itself naturally, there's probably a much greater chance of the man becoming what he naturally is.

If a sub finds she is married to a sub... is all lost? Of course not. D/s relationships aren't the only type of relationships on earth. Lots of couples find plenty of happiness living a vanilla existance with their partners, and exploring D/s interaction in other, acceptable ways i.e. professional, friends, or just taking turns in bed. The ideal Dom/sub/Sadist/masochist/S/switch is a bit like the ideal vanilla girlfriend/boyfriend who has perfect hair, teeth, chests, and butt, perfect personality, and rich - probably not who we are dating/married to is it? It's not the perfection that makes us happy. It's the sense of belonging, security, and genuine pleasure you take from someone who matches you well. If two subs got married, and learned later they were subs? They had reasons to marry in the first place - better to focus on the aspects that draw a couple together, then the parts that are sure to rip them apart.

Stephan


_____________________________

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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to Kinkypupper)
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RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 11/9/2004 12:00:52 PM   
TaurusMCMLVIII


Posts: 88
Joined: 1/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

No healthy HUMAN is dominant or submissive ALL THE TIME. With that in mind, I'm an Opera Lover. Was I born that way? No. I grew to appreciate it and learned to love it.


This may not have been the most eloquent way to state it but I agree with it. I'll even go one better (knowing it may well annoyed many people) that dominants who "grow" into their roles may actually be "better" doms. Let me explain a bit before you get the tar and feathers. Many people associated dominants with certain personality characteristics that people are born with such as "Type A" personalities. I would argue that these people have a higher chance that their personality traits will interfere with their role as a 'great' dominant.

Besides, who wants to live with a dominant 24/7 anyway? Isn't it nice that the trash gets taken out, or the bed made, or the toilet cleaned once in a while without doing it yourself or asking for a "favor"?

(in reply to DeerAbbie)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 11/10/2004 11:24:15 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Besides, who wants to live with a dominant 24/7 anyway? Isn't it nice that the trash gets taken out, or the bed made, or the toilet cleaned once in a while without doing it yourself or asking for a "favor"?


I am living with a person who does - so there's one at least. And I don't think I will lose my "Master-Card" by saying I sometimes take out the garbage. Turn your question around. Who wants to live with a submissive 24/7 anyway? It the profiles are honest and real, hold down the laughter, you should get a LOT of hands raised.

Consider that many people are forced into their 'Type A' lives. They were "raised" to be Doctors, business owners, lawyers, or whatever. Or they thought that was what was expected of them. Or worse, they were told they would only be happy and successful if they were leaders, rich, influential, and important.

This lifestyle is different. There aren't pre-conceived background stereotypes. In many respects it's equivalent to being homosexual. I believe I feel just as strongly about my dominant tendencies as a gay man's feelings toward men. I really don't think I had a choice. And I am happy to have found it early in my live.

I will agree though that I am a different Master now then I was when I was younger. Hell, I have a LOT more toys now and hopefully I'm more skillful in my use of them. I also realize after all that I've seen and done, that I have more to learn then I have learned. When I was younger - I knew I knew EVERYTHING. Call that growth or development or whatever.

Never cared for "tar and feathers" too messy and too hard to clean up. I much prefer honey and birdseed, stretched out on stakes, in a freshly mowed meadow on a nice sunny day. Much more environmentally friendly and a perfect picnic image!

(in reply to TaurusMCMLVIII)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 11/12/2004 9:30:58 PM   
MasterSeatac


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/12/2004
Status: offline 		I spent 7 yrs as a slave. The Mistress I was serving ordered me to stand...took my collar of and released me from servitude..."You wand to teach. you want to guide...you want to show people the beauty of this lifestyle...for a man thats hard to do as a slave." She spent the next year training me to be a Master...the arts of which I knew as a slave...the responsibilitys of the Dom/Domme...As for being born that way...I knew when I was 11 when I opened up an encyclopidia and saw a man and a woman in a pilgrems pillory...that was my first hardon...so Yes I think some of us are born into this...be it top or bottom sub/slave or Mistress/Master...the best masters/Mistresses I know have been at the bottom at one time or another...is it a switch? do I want to return to submission? No and yes...my fantasiy sides says yes...my reality is I can no personally return to my roots...it has been 17 years since I served as a slave...and My heart is not there anymore.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 12/11/2004 1:17:44 AM   
subbreaker


Posts: 5
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline 		To be honest I think a dominant CAN be trained but not a Master. A dominant can be trained to give a sub pleasure when the games begin as long as the sub remains in charge and always has a safe word BUT a true Master or slave is born and the instinct comes naturally. As a Master I usually KNOW when my slave needs to be pushed or needs to be held. This is NOT something you can teach but with a true Master-slave relationship there is no need for safe words because both understand the Master is there to guide and protect his slave 24/7. In fact, I have found that in a true relationship there is usually no need for words at all. Just look into the eyes of your slave and you KNOW what to do

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 12/11/2004 7:17:52 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

Just look into the eyes of your slave and you KNOW what to do


Is it the little voices you hear telling you? or the magic Master sense?

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-there is no remission without blood-

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 12/12/2004 4:04:11 AM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		This is one of those idiotic conversations that creeps up from time to time, with people tossing about rhetoric discussing 'nature vs. nurture' and romanticism vs. reality.

One might be trained as a dominant, otherwise how would anyone attend school if they are of that persuasion.

Can they be trained "AS" a dominant - certainly. There are attributes that come from experience, and some experience CAN often added through education.

Is one born vs. made? - Why is it in one way, and not the other? Why does it require that people are born demanding suckle frm the teat of their mother, never crying from frustration and rage or injury? Seems a bit silly. (flip side) Why does it require that someone simply discover this through interactions with a lover? Why is it not that people are born with some desire, develop that desire as their psychological being is manifest (most especially, as is known) through their developmental stages? Why can someone not find this (thereafter) and work to be better through self education (did everyone hee research the absolute piss out of this when first they realized there were other perverts dancing about the world?).

As far as a "dominant" being trained and not a "master" being trained - what a lot of romantic claptrap.... a master mechanic is trained - a husband does not know everything there is to know when the rings are exchanged - and, a top perfects his personal skills through repetition and learning from other's techniques... I am not sure where this innate (genetic) skill is ascertained through an osmosical absorbtion from the cosmos.

As it stands: Stating a dominant is "born" is unproven although their is circumstantial evidence to suggest that one might be... (no DNA analysis has yet proven it) - and, it is a known fact that one's sexuality is developed through inheritance (womb happenings) and through the developmental stages of the adolescent; and, we all know that someone definitvely improves with skills learned from others (read: Education) - so what exactly is the discussion going on about?

"True" master is pretty much a specious context - and, generally the definition is always something that simply is a "belief" (read: not a reality) except to the person that states it. It is ephemeral as well - being inarticulatable from the person stating it - to - the person trying to comprehend what their defintiion is..... and, is generally stated by people who are on line entities only as a part of their fantasy world, vice by those people who try to think about the world and their relation in it.

Just a few rambling thoughts.

~J


Oh - and, by the way - I am a dominant and dominant 24 freaking 7 -and (through some people's declamation) an 'asshole' throughout that time as well.


< Message edited by LordODiscipline -- 12/12/2004 4:10:21 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 12/13/2004 10:20:19 AM   
Destinysskeins


Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

quote:

Just look into the eyes of your slave and you KNOW what to do


Is it the little voices you hear telling you? or the magic Master sense?


Oh, i don't know about that....

Personally, it heartens me to know that there are those who have transcended the limits and fallacies that we others are so burdened with in our mundaneness. Perhaps someday we too, can soar above these ponderous bouts of indecision and human error.

One can only hope.

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 12/15/2004 7:21:13 AM   
Kiaban


Posts: 124
Joined: 7/11/2004
Status: offline 		I didn't have time to read the rest of the replies so if this has been already stated I guess I will just be agreeing with whoever said it first.
While I don't really think you can "make" someone a Dom or sub for that matter certainly each can grow in station.
Society in general has directed us since birth as to what is "appropriate" behaviour, some doms and subs alike take a bit in "unprogramming' themselves to really enjoy what thier heart has wanted all along.
So can you train a dom? well it really depends on if thats a noun or verb, you can't make someone something they are not, but they can grow in it over time and through experience.

(in reply to hazeRDA)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 12/17/2004 5:58:17 PM   
MC2044


Posts: 31
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline 		Words and how we interpret or use them can be so interesting. Now I agree with what subbreaker says, but disagree with the use of the words 'dominant' and 'master.' I see it the other way around. A submissive person can be dominant to another submissive, but most likely they won't enjoy it. A submissive can own, order about, and otherwise master another submissive and enjoy it all, if they see it as a way to please their own dominant.

OTOH many are doms but few are masters, but that most likely is another thread. Shall we discuss leaders and managers, or what came first, the chicken or the egg?

(in reply to subbreaker)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 5/2/2005 4:24:39 PM   
angelinbondage


Posts: 30
Joined: 1/27/2005
Status: offline 		Anyone can be trained to act like anything; a slave can be trained to act like a master, a sub can be trained to act like a dom, and a switch can be trained to stick to one side or the other. It is what is felt in the heart that makes a person who he or she is.

Excuse my Oprah moment.......

(in reply to MC2044)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 5/2/2005 9:36:39 PM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		When Wwe are born, Wwe don't even know how to breathe and Wwe have to be conditioned quickly to breathe on our own or Wwe die. Wwe are born with the natural feelings of suckling and fear (survival basics). Anything else is learned through Oour training from childhood on and socio-environmental elements that Wwe are exposed to factor into the equation of who and what Wwe are.

Best Regards,

X

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 5/3/2005 1:59:06 PM   
Tormentius


Posts: 71
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SenorX

When Wwe are born, Wwe don't even know how to breathe and Wwe have to be conditioned quickly to breathe on our own or Wwe die. Wwe are born with the natural feelings of suckling and fear (survival basics). Anything else is learned through Oour training from childhood on and socio-environmental elements that Wwe are exposed to factor into the equation of who and what Wwe are.

Best Regards,

X


Well said.

(in reply to SenorX)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 5/6/2005 7:00:49 AM   
OrdinaryMaster


Posts: 4
Joined: 1/3/2004
Status: offline 		I believe we all are trained in various aspects of life. It's called conditioning. If we're raised in a certain culture, we're most likely be as though people in that particular culture. Of course there are personalities and individual traits which make us who we are. So, my answer would be yes, you can be trained but if it's not in you to begin with, then it's simply not there.

I once knew a male sub who was submissive for over 20 years. He decided he wanted to switch over to being dominant and I would say, after he was trained, he was/is one of the best dominants I have known. He was very passionate about what he wanted. He wanted to be an excellent Top/Dom and it was in him to be just that.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 5/6/2005 11:26:30 AM   
Wolfmaan


Posts: 6
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		Well I think to be a good Dominant, you have to have training. That would be like becoming a police officer - going on the beat and not knowing how to diffuse a situation.

You need training, You need to learn techique, responsibility. I have to say that yes - a Dominant can and needs to be trained.

(in reply to hazeRDA)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 5/6/2005 1:52:54 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		I have always been dominant and controlling for as long as I can remember. I do believe I was born that way. However, it took someone to open My eyes to the fact that that is who I was and that is why I was destroying relationships. From there I took it upon Myself to learn by reading, reading and more reading, along with mingling with those in the lifestyle and making friends.

I think a Dom/me can in fact be trained, but I think that at least for many the inate characteristics must be a part of them. I guess it is possible for another Dom/me to train a Dom/me as a mentor, but never should a sub train a Dom/me. Answer questions, sure, but I do not feel that it is their place to do the training. That is how I conduct My relationships anyways. And yes, I am a 24/7 Dom and it appears I am not a very happy camper unless I am.

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Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 5/11/2005 6:09:34 PM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		ty Tormentius.

The only instinct that Wwe are born with is the instinct to suckle and the fear of falling. Everything is is learned... even breathing. This has been empirically proven.

Best Regards,

X

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 5/27/2005 9:30:14 PM   
masterdarkthorn


Posts: 13
Joined: 5/22/2005
Status: offline 		Of course Doms can be trained, how do you think they learn anything.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Can a Dom be 'trained'? - 5/28/2005 6:43:01 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterdarkthorn

Of course Doms can be trained, how do you think they learn anything.


Claerly, most of those who replied here are making a distinction between knowledge and a state of character. We all agree we can learn techniques and accumulate experience.

What most people are talking about here is a state character (being Dominant) or the impulse to dominate in intimacy. That's what people are really asking - is it a fixed orientation like heterosexuality - you're just this way? Or is it possible to change, to really not be sexually aroused or suited for one end of the D/s divide, and learn/change so that you can cross that divide.

So it's not an "of course."

(in reply to masterdarkthorn)
Profile   Post #: 40
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