RE: Proving Yourself

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LillyBoPeep -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 10:51:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 The guys that I sort of got into online with, and started to form some picture of them, and especially if i had any expectaions, those meetings I usually came away from disappointed. So I try really hard now to be neutral about someone online and my only expectation is that we will have something to talk about to each other. I dont do coffee meetings anymore tho, if i meet someone we would have to do something more than that, even if its just going for a walk. But I have to say, meeting for an hour or two is very different than meeting someone for a whole weekend, imo, the more time you have with someone, the more you can see them as they are and the more of a bond you develop. My grip about coffee/short meetings is sometimes it takes a few dates to develop "chemistry" (for lack of a better word). I dont really trust the love-at-first-sight thing, there has to be more there to create something very long lasting (or it just becomes a hot fling). i agree with you here about expectations; sometimes i form them and they let me down, other times i form them, and they could've taken me away from something that was really good. so i also try to stay neutral on people i've met, just to see where it all goes. for me, relationships generally go in an "i know it when i feel it" sorta way. ANYWAY, as far as "proving" goes, i agree with DesFIP that the risk of thinking about "proof" is that you've already judged someone as needing to prove themselves to you in the first place. (And I think NuevaVida's break down is pretty spot on, if you ask me.) And when someone tires of jumping through hoops, they throw up their hands and wander away, and the person who demanded the proof sits there and says "see?! i KNEW i was right about you! you're no good!" well no, they might've been a great person (and the fact that they tried for a time shows that they were more good than bad), but they weren't a saint, or super-human. sometimes those who are constantly demanding proof live in atangle of self-fulfilling prophecies. for me, i associate with people i feel something from. i don't meet someone and expect him to prove how good he is to me, i expect him to be himself, and if i feel anything there, then i feel it. "good" is subjective for the most part. someone may be a great for me and be horrible for someone else.

cpK69 -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 11:09:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady But when you look at it from a broader point of view than in the other thread, aren't we all proving ourselves to those around us? I’m still considering the idea, but at this point, I’m thinking the problem with trying to prove myself to others, is that it is the same as attempting to conform to another’s perspective; validating them. I think the opposite would be true, if I were expecting them to prove themselves to me. How could I ever hope to find myself, if I am always trying to prove things to others? I suspect it is best; I treat each encounter as an experience to learn from, and just try to be the best me I can be. Kim

popularDemand -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 11:10:11 AM)
If I were being "tested", I'd like to know, as that might usually include "rules". If there are "rules" it's best we all know what they are. If I knew I were being tested under rules, I wouldn't have applied in the first instance. Life is too short, so I've heard. I'm a 'natural progression' kindaguy. Then again, I'm never "looking" for anything either. pD

NuevaVida -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 12:29:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys You and a few others as I see it have their heads, not in the sky among the clouds nor stuck in the sand but right where they should be..firmly planted on your capable shoulders with feet placed forward making wise steps. Well I lived for awhile with my head in the clouds and I got really dizzy up there for lack of oxygen. So I stuck my head in the sand because I didn't want to see the truth (about many things) and I suffocated down there. This isn't to say I haven't revisited those places from time to time, but I recognize when I'm there and when it's time to leave, lol. quote: Naive? Not in the slightest. You grasp for and reach the greater good IMHO. Thank you, Icarys, I appreciate the kind words. I do have my naive moments, however! [:)] But my point is, if someone decides I'm naive because I think differently about something, I'm really OK with that. If I wasn't OK with that (defensive, upset, etc.) then I'd have to ask myself why, and what truth there may be to that statement, that is bothering me so much.

Icarys -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 12:31:38 PM)
You've "proved" my points true as you continually do. [:D]

NuevaVida -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 12:36:45 PM)
LOL well now I gotta go run errands and be productive or I'll prove to him how lazy I really am....and we can't have that! [8D] (I actually keep telling him I am, but he looks around and doesn't believe it).

Icarys -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 12:38:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida LOL well now I gotta go run errands and be productive or I'll prove to him how lazy I really am....and we can't have that! [8D] (I actually keep telling him I am, but he looks around and doesn't believe it). Have fun! [sm=smile.gif]

LadyConstanze -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 1:47:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Not true DesFIP. My Ex had & still has some major trust issues regarding men, I had to earn her trust. Over the last 20 years of marriage, divorce, schizophrenia, and heavy drinking, I have given her plenty off little opportunities to decide I wasn't worthy of her trust if she was looking for an excuse, but obviously she wasn't. Once I had proved myself trustworthy in her eyes, it would have taken a major breach of that trust to have her revoke it. The few men she decides to really trust, she trusts fiercely. She trusts me completely. I have a key to her house, I know the PIN to all her bank cards, I know where she keeps her stash of emergency cash, I have my own room at her house so I can stay the night when its more convenient for me (I don't need to ask), she asks my opinion of the various men she dates, she asks my opinion for all her major life decisions. Sometimes a person who starts out with negative expectations really does want to be wrong. Don't get me wrong, but that reeks of dependency to me. I trust my friends or they wouldn't be friends, they would be acquaintances, and I count most exes as friends, I value their opinion but I make my choices.

tj444 -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 1:51:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep i agree with you here about expectations; sometimes i form them and they let me down, other times i form them, and they could've taken me away from something that was really good. so i also try to stay neutral on people i've met, just to see where it all goes. for me, relationships generally go in an "i know it when i feel it" sorta way. ANYWAY, as far as "proving" goes, i agree with DesFIP that the risk of thinking about "proof" is that you've already judged someone as needing to prove themselves to you in the first place. (And I think NuevaVida's break down is pretty spot on, if you ask me.) And when someone tires of jumping through hoops, they throw up their hands and wander away, and the person who demanded the proof sits there and says "see?! i KNEW i was right about you! you're no good!" well no, they might've been a great person (and the fact that they tried for a time shows that they were more good than bad), but they weren't a saint, or super-human. sometimes those who are constantly demanding proof live in atangle of self-fulfilling prophecies. for me, i associate with people i feel something from. i don't meet someone and expect him to prove how good he is to me, i expect him to be himself, and if i feel anything there, then i feel it. "good" is subjective for the most part. someone may be a great for me and be horrible for someone else. I have stayed away from using the word "prove". I dont like using it since i am not out to prove anything to anyone, I am the way I am (good and bad) and people have the choice to deal with me or not. I take no offense if they pass me by. I just want to see others as they really & truly are (both the good and bad), not as they think I want them to be. That is why a guy's blank profile urks me, cuz he wont tell me honestly and upfront what he's into and not into. It makes me think he wants to hear what I am into first so he can say he is into the same things, even tho in reality might be the furthest thing from the truth. In other words he wants to lie to me which will only lead to problems at some point should we start dating. And sometimes something I consider "bad" is just something I am not into but other women more compatible with him are.

Arpig -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 2:28:58 PM)
Dependence? LOL, I can see how it might seem like that, but you wouldn't think that for a minute if you knew her. [:D] quote: I value their opinion but I make my choices. Ah, but I didn't say how often she takes my advice now did I? She asks for it always, but often decides not to take it. She trusts me to give her the best advice I can, based on how I see things. We see things very differently (otherwise we'd still be married), so my advice is often not what she sees as the best for her.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 3:12:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I have stayed away from using the word "prove". I dont like using it since i am not out to prove anything to anyone, I am the way I am (good and bad) and people have the choice to deal with me or not. I take no offense if they pass me by. I just want to see others as they really & truly are (both the good and bad), not as they think I want them to be. TOTALLY agreed. to me, something like "proving" is someone actively trying to affect the way i think about them. not necessarily just being who they are, but doing things specifically to produce a particular result. human relations aren't as concrete as, say, mathematics, so someone CAN "prove" something to you that's actually completely false. quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 That is why a guy's blank profile urks me, cuz he wont tell me honestly and upfront what he's into and not into. It makes me think he wants to hear what I am into first so he can say he is into the same things, even tho in reality might be the furthest thing from the truth. In other words he wants to lie to me which will only lead to problems at some point should we start dating. And sometimes something I consider "bad" is just something I am not into but other women more compatible with him are. and agreed here, too. actually once while chatting with a guy on YIM, i asked him what he was interested in and he literally went and looked at my profile (i guess he figured that "who's viewing you" thing wouldn't go off =p) and typed a list straight out of my lists.

NuevaVida -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 4:56:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: I simply prefer to use other words and descriptors because of the connotations that word has to me. That's why I asked what word you would prefer to use. In the date context you use "sparked" an interest. I have no problem with that word in that context, it doesn't apply for trustworthiness, or Domliness, but I still maintain that we are using different words to describe the same process. The process whereby we determine if a person is somebody we wish to be friends with, or in a romantic relationship with, or business partners with...whatever the context of the interaction. We do judge (or determine or "find out", or "see") based on the person's words and behaviour if that person is a fit for whatever sort of relationship they are a potential for. How many times on these boards do we see the advice "Meet face to face and see if there is actually anything there, see if you click". It is this "seeing" that is being referred to in the OP (well, at least that's what I think is being referred to). Hi Arpig, my apologies in that I seemed to have twice missed you asking what particular word I'd use. It's a good question, and I don't think it comes down to one word for me. If my intentions were to mitigate risk - in other words, I do not trust that you are who you say you are so I need you to show me you are who you say you are - then I'd use "prove". "Prove to me you are who you say you are." And hey, I've done that before, and I'm not saying I'd never do it again. But my most recent experience has been otherwise. "Show me who you are" is where I was coming from - and we began with a neutral playing field. You see, to me, "proving" means your starting point is a negative number (in my mind) and you have to show me you're really in the positive numbers. If you've given me reason to distrust you, and I'm invested in you, then you bet you'll have something to prove to me. But if we're both starting from 0, then just spend time with me and be yourself, and I'll learn who you are - you'll either fall into a negative zone or climb into the positive zone. I'm not sure I'm explaining this very well. But I can't nail it down to one word (yet?). I remember telling the Mister about my "Cinderella theory" - that you really can't get a good feel for the true nature of someone until about 4-6 months. People can't uphold a facade much longer than that (putting on their best face, etc.) and eventually the real man/woman will come through. I said "People tend to turn into pumpkins in about 4-6 months." So during that time I decided to just be honest with myself, with what I was seeing in him - maybe he was a cool guy, maybe not, and time would tell. And if he wasn't, Adios amigo. If he was (which he was), then it's all good. But he didn't have to prove to me he wasn't a pumpkin, because I never assumed he was one in the first place. He simply had to be, and all would be revealed, in time. I really do get your use and understanding of the word "prove" and it's not that the word creates some violent reaction in me or anything. I just don't prefer it, because it seems that it assumes someone is starting out in a deficit, which seems unfair to me.

HannahLynHeather -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 5:07:29 PM)
prove, show, reveal, whatever. its just different words for the same fucking thing. it takes time to get to know somebody, and the way you get to know them is by what they fucking say and do. and the 4-6 months, you're pretty much spot fucking on, most screw it up long before that. but the only way you can really fucking know somebody's true nature is what they do when the shit hits the fan. how they act when life is totally fubar, that's how you really know a person.

gungadin09 -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 5:15:00 PM)
Great pic! pam

tj444 -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 10:08:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida I remember telling the Mister about my "Cinderella theory" - that you really can't get a good feel for the true nature of someone until about 4-6 months. People can't uphold a facade much longer than that (putting on their best face, etc.) and eventually the real man/woman will come through. I said "People tend to turn into pumpkins in about 4-6 months." Yes, it does take some time to see the real person, fer sure. But I do find that you get some red flags (or green flags) all along, you just need to be perceptive enough to see them and not willfully blind. Those glimpses can show the bad side or the good side, depending on the person.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 11:40:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig To littlewonder & NuevaVida Then what word would you use to express the concept I'm expressing? I don't know but for me I like the word synchronicity. For me there is no trying, no proving, no working at it, no looking at the person and hoping or thinking or wanting...it is either there or it isn't. It either happens all on its own, naturally, organically or not at all. This sums it up for me. There is either a "click" or there isn't. For me, this pertains to co-workers, friends, dates, hell, all of humanity. I just do not get in to the deep evaluations that many others do.

heartcream -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/19/2011 11:54:47 PM)
When I catch myself trying to prove myself I try and back up and stop doing that. When I do that in fact I am thinking of what others think/expect of me whether real, imagined or projected. And guaranteed I get it wrong, waste valuable time, energy anyway. Ultimately I gratefully find the guilt response in this and know how unhealthy this motivation is. I live my life as best I can, thinking for myself, loving myself, being true to myself. I feel this makes me a stable role model and that is gratifying to me. Being myself is the anchor.

NuevaVida -> RE: Proving Yourself (6/20/2011 8:10:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 Yes, it does take some time to see the real person, fer sure. But I do find that you get some red flags (or green flags) all along, you just need to be perceptive enough to see them and not willfully blind. Those glimpses can show the bad side or the good side, depending on the person. I absolutely agree, and those flags are part of them showing you who they are. Then it's up to you, how you want to handle them. I always asked him about any flags I sensed. One other thought on this "proving" thing. The only one I've really needed to prove anything to is myself. I mentioned on another thread recently about trusting myself, since I had let myself down before. So I had to prove to myself that I'd make good decisions for myself and be honest with myself. I also understand the context of "prove" when used such as "He proved himself to be an uncaring person." It's not that anyone questioned him and he set out to prove them right or wrong - it's just a contextual use of the word, and not where I was coming from when I was saying the Mister & I didn't set out to prove anything to each other. I wasn't looking for him to prove anything to me, but it could be used in a sentence that he did.

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