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What is TPE - 6/23/2011 6:54:57 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Yes yes, I know that everyone has their own definition. So how about we all save a lot of typing on this one and agree that you don't need to type, "This is my own opinion and not meant to be a statement of absolute fact" ??

So CP's thread on "TPE & D/s" got me to thinking. We're all talking about TPE, but what is that? What does it mean, exactly, in your mind when you have given "total power" to someone or someone has given it to you? Specifically, I'm interested in your view on what, exactly, that "power" is good for? If a person has "total power" but not "total obedience" then what is the manifestation of "power"?

All questions, again, relevant to your opinion and experience. This isn't a "right/wrong" thing. It's me trying to understand the viewpoint wherein someone says, "I am totally owned and he has total power but I don't always obey."

~Jeff



_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael
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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 7:29:59 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		This is a term that never made alot of sense to me... and will never make sense I am suspecting. When it comes down to it... the term means nothing to me. It's confusion as a statement at best in my opinion.

I believe the key to the whole phrase is understanding what one is referring to with regards to the word Power. In general Power defined is the "ability to do". But do what? that to me is the question that needs to be understood if one is to appreciate it from another's perspective. But, that is much easier said than done. My experience that alot of these relationships can't even have clarity on the issue between themselves let alone outside of their relationship.

I wish you luck as you stir up the mud.

_____________________________

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 7:53:23 AM   
leadership527


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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
I wish you luck as you stir up the mud.

Threads like this typically stir up "mud" as you put it... but not mud that I care about. Somewhere among the back and forth bickering will be a few folks who have the alternate viewpoint(s) I'm interested in and can talk about them eloquently and without defensiveness. I'll leave the "mud" for those looking to make a better/worse comparison.

But for you Knight... seeing as I agree with you, how about TAT? In the end, the problem I'm not resolving is the word "total" not "power". What I'm not understanding is how the totality manifests in the relationship. For instance, I know of one such relationship where it's way more about his dominance than their submission. So she doesn't obey and doesn't feel like she needs to. He then forces her to. That interchange works for both of them. In somewhat glib terms, I'd say the totality manifests like this:

He gets to do whatever he wants (allowing him to force her) without going to jail.

In their case, it's more about his freedom of action than hers. That's in stark contrast to Carol and I wherein the dynamic is much more about her freedom than mine. In both cases the relationship is manifestly working quite well for those involved. But comparing their "TPE" relationship and mine got me to wondering how many other "totals" are out there and what other people might mean when they say "TPE".


< Message edited by leadership527 -- 6/23/2011 7:55:26 AM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 8:14:43 AM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline 		After years, I still have no clue what "TPE" means beyond a buzz word that gets thrown around a lot, brushing up and associated with other equally undefined concepts such as "total dominance" and "total submission". Perhaps this will be the thread where someone finally drops some brilliant insight that destroys the mystery, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't wager any money on that bet.

I do know there is often a direct tie between the number of times it is used in a post and the quality of the content. Hence, the more times I see "TPE", the less the quality of the content.

In all seriousness, the best definition I can provide is a label for a relationship that contains "extreme control", whatever that subjective measurement means.


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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 8:31:40 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Yes yes, I know that everyone has their own definition. So how about we all save a lot of typing on this one and agree that you don't need to type, "This is my own opinion and not meant to be a statement of absolute fact" ??

So CP's thread on "TPE & D/s" got me to thinking. We're all talking about TPE, but what is that? What does it mean, exactly, in your mind when you have given "total power" to someone or someone has given it to you? Specifically, I'm interested in your view on what, exactly, that "power" is good for? If a person has "total power" but not "total obedience" then what is the manifestation of "power"?

All questions, again, relevant to your opinion and experience. This isn't a "right/wrong" thing. It's me trying to understand the viewpoint wherein someone says, "I am totally owned and he has total power but I don't always obey."

~Jeff






I feel your power. It overwhelms me, bends my knees but I ain't doing shit for you. I will not obey you. I will not grant you any authority whatsoever but, damn, I can sure feel all that power. When I enter into the agreement to exchange that power for your authority, that's when I obey. Total power doesn't mean total obedience but it is a necessary first step for the end result of total obedience.

Simply put, power is the conduit to authority and authority is required for obedience. Power to authority to obedience. Failure to obey means the authority has broken down, not necessarily the power although it could be both.


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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 8:47:29 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		that was awesome, Bita. (are you the one who had written that power --> authority thread a while back? i've been trying to find that.)
for me, even though i still use the term "power exchange," i generally think about it more in terms of "authority transfer," which i nicked from LuckyAlbatross. because, as Bita explained, power leads to authority, but not straightway to obedience.

but you're more concerned with the word "total," right? how does the "total" part manifest itself in a relationship? i've met a lot of people who have dynamics like the example provided earlier -- she doesn't feel she has to obey, and he will just force her to. a lot of owned people who say they aren't submissive in the least function like this; they're compelled to obey, not out of submissiveness, but by something else.

for me, TPE always seemed too rigid and one-dimensional, but that's probably my bias based on just not having a lot of experience there. while my previous relationship didn't have the time to jump all the hurdles, the sex part was actually probably the easiest, and i would say that his total ownership of that aspect of me was just in his freedom to do whatever he wanted. there were a few times i can remember when i (miraculously =p) really wasn't in the mood for something, but i didn't believe that it mattered. =p his authority over that part of me canceled it out.
granted, obedience was a big part of our dynamic, anyway. and maybe we were just compatible in that end? i can't imagine not even bothering to TRY to obey at all, that's just not the type of person i am.

[/ramble]


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"Obey your Master." Metallica


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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 10:30:02 AM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble]

I feel your power. It overwhelms me, bends my knees but I ain't doing shit for you. I will not obey you. I will not grant you any authority whatsoever but, damn, I can sure feel all that power. When I enter into the agreement to exchange that power for your authority, that's when I obey. Total power doesn't mean total obedience but it is a necessary first step for the end result of total obedience.

Simply put, power is the conduit to authority and authority is required for obedience. Power to authority to obedience. Failure to obey means the authority has broken down, not necessarily the power although it could be both.



Well, in hindsight, I wish I had made that wager. That's a very thought-provoking explanation. Thank you for sharing.

_____________________________

I was once a Rabbit, driven Mad, by the Decadence of his Desires...

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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 11:04:55 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		well Jeff.. I don't have much issue with the T part of TPE... I suppose that issue is dependent on the P part. In some cases... the T becomes an no issue depending on the P part.. other times... well.. I just roll the eyes and leave them to their fantasy.

As you know.. I am a TAT man. For me the Dynamic is foundation is about the Authority in the relationship. Which means it's a dance between Command and Obedience. I have Total authority to make any decision I desire in the relationhip. Now just because I have total authority doesn't equate to making every decision. Alot decisions are made by the girls. I do however, establish rules protocals etc to guide them in their delegated decision making. Secondly, Obedience must be Total. I do not play the game today I obey tomorrow I don't. Everything is to be obeyed... The vow of obedience to me is as fundamental to me as someone's vow of fidelity.

I think where people get themself lost is they start thinking 'micro-manging' and believe that with TPE or TAT you make every decision control every move etc etc. You have the power! you have the authority... but you use it when YOU choose to use it.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 11:07:42 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		It means he can make any decision not that he has to.

Which here, he can't have. I refuse to let him muck about in the kitchen because he can't cook. Telling me to make this or that is one thing, interfering in recipes is something else.


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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 2:54:32 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I sometimes use *TPE* but it's not a term that MEANS anything to me as such. It's been the catch-all term when discussing a certain type of relationship that is vaguely close to ours.

I chuckled at your last line.....I AM owned but sometimes I fall foul of the odd standing *rule*. The one that most often cops it is bedtime. Now, in this, I have been, and probably WILL be again, a disobedient owned person. I'm not remotely belligerent about it......I'm just extremely realistic.

I've caught flak here before because I admit that I occasionally*disobey*. I am owned much like his dog, he owns me no matter what I do. The majority of the time he's got a bouncy, enthusiastic willing person who's fairly organised, despite being a bit on the scatty side......but there's a small amount of time where he's got a bouncy, enthusiastic, slightly less willing person who gets lost *in the moment* and ignores the time. I'm not a*good* in that way, I'm not even a pleaser and I don't live to serve him. (Even though I still have to do those things as and when)

If I so much as baulked at the consequences of *disobeying*..THAT would be the death knell....NOT  that that I'd stayed up 20 mins too long.

M doesn't own a *slave*, he just owns a person. I do quite well considering that I'm not submissive and am a bit wild. He knows this......he knew it years before he owned me just as I knew that he had no intentions of squashing me but that he also wasn't going to allow me to run the show. Neither of us are easy people to live with......... I'm *Miss Live in the Moment* and he's* Mr Plan-Ahead*. We drive each other crazy!

So after all that, what do we have?........A guy that owns a girl.....the good, the bad and the ugly. If she ignores a rule, she accepts, wholeheartedly, the consequences, with no complaints and she makes a redoubled effort. Yeah, she'll fall foul again a few months down the line. But we aren't after perfection, we are after effort, and finding the balance between him being him and me being me.

This is what we have. We call it a relationship where HE calls the shots and SHE tries to keep up and live within it. I'm just NOT going to achieve perfect obedience and I'm not going to chase that inandofitself. When I stop bothering to *do better* then that'll be the death knell........when I stop accepting the consequences of his *rule*........then that will be the death knell.

Until then........ we are Him owning Her.

agirl




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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 3:17:11 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


I think where people get themself lost is they start thinking 'micro-manging' and believe that with TPE or TAT you make every decision control every move etc etc. You have the power! you have the authority... but you use it when YOU choose to use it.



I've lost count of the amount of interaction I've had that mistakenly assumes that M micro-manages me down to a fine point. I WISH he had the time!....... I'd love the attention!. Ok, I admit we'd probably spend the time fucking, but hey.

I'd actually like to know what people assume micro-managing is...as it seems to be *anything I wouldn't want anyone else having a say in*.

agirl


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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 3:38:40 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Yes yes, I know that everyone has their own definition. So how about we all save a lot of typing on this one and agree that you don't need to type, "This is my own opinion and not meant to be a statement of absolute fact" ??

So CP's thread on "TPE & D/s" got me to thinking. We're all talking about TPE, but what is that? What does it mean, exactly, in your mind when you have given "total power" to someone or someone has given it to you? Specifically, I'm interested in your view on what, exactly, that "power" is good for? If a person has "total power" but not "total obedience" then what is the manifestation of "power"?

All questions, again, relevant to your opinion and experience. This isn't a "right/wrong" thing. It's me trying to understand the viewpoint wherein someone says, "I am totally owned and he has total power but I don't always obey."

~Jeff






I feel your power. It overwhelms me, bends my knees but I ain't doing shit for you. I will not obey you. I will not grant you any authority whatsoever but, damn, I can sure feel all that power. When I enter into the agreement to exchange that power for your authority, that's when I obey. Total power doesn't mean total obedience but it is a necessary first step for the end result of total obedience.

Simply put, power is the conduit to authority and authority is required for obedience. Power to authority to obedience. Failure to obey means the authority has broken down, not necessarily the power although it could be both.



I can't disagree with this.

But perhaps I live predominantly with people that don't specifically need or want authority to *obey*.  I can see it as a model and it has sense, rationality and so on......

The boys do the good things because they think/believe they should. Other times they do good things because they love me and want to make life a bit easier, especially when I've a lot on my plate.

I don't care for them to do stuff because they're bothered about how much shit they'll get into if they don't. I just want them to do it because it's the decent thing to do and it's fair, raitional and makes life bearable and nice for us all.

And that is predominantly how my M/s relationship runs. I do what I have to do because it's the correct thing to do, it's fair and rational. M does the same. And the boys do it too.

PREDOMINANTLY.....not always.

agirl







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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 6:11:27 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Yes yes, I know that everyone has their own definition. So how about we all save a lot of typing on this one and agree that you don't need to type, "This is my own opinion and not meant to be a statement of absolute fact" ??

Indeed...how about?

So CP's thread on "TPE & D/s" got me to thinking. We're all talking about TPE, but what is that? What does it mean, exactly, in your mind when you have given "total power" to someone or someone has given it to you? Specifically, I'm interested in your view on what, exactly, that "power" is good for? If a person has "total power" but not "total obedience" then what is the manifestation of "power"?

All questions, again, relevant to your opinion and experience. This isn't a "right/wrong" thing. (Thanks for clarifying) It's me trying to understand the viewpoint wherein someone says, "I am totally owned and he has total power but I don't always obey."

~Jeff


In my opinion (and of course, this is just me talking)...it has to do with when the Domme hands over all her cash, credit cards and all decision making processes.

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RE: What is TPE - 6/23/2011 8:18:36 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Crumbs......I thought this would have a valley-full of responses/opinions and so on.




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RE: What is TPE - 6/24/2011 1:03:15 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		TPE is one of the Buzz words. LA used to post on here about "Total Authority" being a better description of this. However, all in all it's just D/s kicked up on high levels.

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RE: What is TPE - 6/24/2011 7:30:29 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you Bita... that was exactly the sort of viewpoint I was looking for. I'll be muddling over that construction for a while but I think I'll "get it" eventually.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: What is TPE - 6/24/2011 7:34:28 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
but you're more concerned with the word "total," right? how does the "total" part manifest itself in a relationship? i've met a lot of people who have dynamics like the example provided earlier -- she doesn't feel she has to obey, and he will just force her to. a lot of owned people who say they aren't submissive in the least function like this; they're compelled to obey, not out of submissiveness, but by something else.

Actually, I was more thinking about those who don't feel compelled to obey at all. In the end, obedience is an action but I get it that there are lots and lots of paths that end up at that end result.

...but i didn't believe that it mattered. =p his authority over that part of me canceled it out.
That's interesting in that your reasoning in that one area sounds a lot like Carol's reasoning in every area.



_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)
Profile   Post #: 17
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