RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 8:36:20 PM)

Well I'm leaving too...but I have an early tee time in the morning,and as old as I am...I need my sleep,otherwise I do nothing but shank it for 18 holes....lol.



DomKen -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 8:57:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


Is there a political party in the US heavily influenced by radical islam? Are there muslim politicans trying to force their version of morality upon the rest of us? Are muslims killing doctors in Kansas? Is there a state or national political party platform full of ideas backed by radical islamists?


You know.... if you don't think the democrat party isn't heavily influenced by Christians, you are beyond naive.


You know...If you would read what I actually wrote you would find I am not talking about generic christians.



BamaD -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 9:25:10 PM)

It was fine for ministers to use their standing and religion to promote their politics when they were left wingers  (Jesse Jackson  and the Berrigan brothers.)



tazzygirl -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 9:29:26 PM)

And I would still expect lawmakers to do what is best for the community they represent... not to pander to the elite few.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 9:32:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It was fine for ministers to use their standing and religion to promote their politics when they were left wingers  (Jesse Jackson  and the Berrigan brothers.)

Add Al Sharpton to that bunch and I think they're assholes too.

Ministers need to stay the fuck OUT of politics period.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 9:33:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

...I need my sleep,otherwise I do nothing but shank it for 18 holes....lol.

I thought that's what ya did anyway. Stay up and at least you'll have an excuse. [8D]



tazzygirl -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 9:36:02 PM)

I disagree. They are constituents as well and deserve to have their voices heard. However, we have politicians who cater to their every whim... Santorum is a prime example of someone who "Do as I say, not as I do" type of politics.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 9:43:03 PM)

Ok, taz, I'll buy they should be heard as individuals except they don't ever do that.

they end up putting pressure on their congregations and even folks outside their congregations to vote the "right way".

That is a violation of their tax exempt status. (note I didn't say separation of church and state as some don't agree that it exists LOL)

If a minister wants to use the pulpit for political use, they should lost their tax exempt status and pay like the rest of us. The problem is that too many of them want to make the rules without paying their share.

That is EVERY minister from Fred Phelps to Al Sharpton on the spectrum.



tazzygirl -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 9:48:39 PM)

The same could be said for the NRA, NOW and PETA.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 9:57:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The same could be said for the NRA, NOW and PETA.

Those groups are allowed because of they way they are set up to spend X number of dollars for lobbying. Not all of their property is tax exempt like churches (at least here).



tazzygirl -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 10:11:28 PM)

So because churches are tax exempt, by law, they arent allowed to talk about politics? Thats a slippery slope. How much in tax deductions and write offs does each group get from the government? PETA is tax exempt. The NRA is a 501(c) (4), tax exempt. NOW is 501 (c) (3), tax exempt.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 10:54:13 PM)

Even 501 c tax exempt organizations pay property taxes on some of their operations. A fraternal organization I belong to is one of those. The property used by the lodge to generate income is taxable. They also pay numerous other taxes.

At least in this area, ALL property owned by a church is non taxable. Some churches in this area even own a dozen or more houses that they rent out and bank the proceeds. Those proceeds aren't taxed and neither do they pay property taxes on the houses.

Different set up.



tazzygirl -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 10:57:53 PM)

So the difference to you is property tax? Im sorry, thats not enough of a difference for me to silence a group of people. What happened to freedom of speech?



Hillwilliam -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 11:03:17 PM)

If they want to have the same rights of speech, then pay like the rest of us do.

My problem is with people that want to make all the rules but not help pay for the implementation.

"You're going to do this and this and this and I'm gonna sit and watch you"



tazzygirl -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 11:08:00 PM)

But the people of those groups do pay the same as you and I. Silencing their voice is indeed a very dangerous step to take.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 11:19:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

But the people of those groups do pay the same as you and I. Silencing their voice is indeed a very dangerous step to take.

As I said before, taz, if they want to speak as an individual, that's ok.

If they want to vote as an individual, that's ok.

The minute that the XYZ Baptist church starts attempting to legislate from the pulpit, that is NOT ok.

Seriously, what is the difference between the Taliban or a Baptist theocracy (or other religion)?



tazzygirl -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/26/2011 11:25:44 PM)

There isnt.... nor any difference in any other group that meets and discusses politics. They do it in schools, hospitals, churches, country clubs. Where people congregate, you cannot legislate what they can or cannot discuss. That is a protected right in this country, regardless of how you feel about the group.



Moonhead -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/27/2011 11:13:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It was fine for ministers to use their standing and religion to promote their politics when they were left wingers  (Jesse Jackson  and the Berrigan brothers.)


Jackson and Berrigan were calling for all the queers to be rounded up and disposed of then, were they?



DomKen -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/27/2011 11:36:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

But the people of those groups do pay the same as you and I. Silencing their voice is indeed a very dangerous step to take.

Except that those donors get tax deductions for their donations. If those charitable groups want to get involved in politics then the money donated should not be tax deductible.



tazzygirl -> RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade (6/27/2011 11:39:19 AM)

quote:


Except that those donors get tax deductions for their donations. If those charitable groups want to get involved in politics then the money donated should not be tax deductible.


And yet they pay personal taxes, they pay business taxes, they pay property taxes. I can give money to a non-religious group and get a tax deduction. It isnt only religious groups that get those.

If you dont like how it works, then the change should be to those laws. I will never support a group being silenced simply because of their religious views, no matter how much people dont like it any more than I would silence pro-life groups, PETA, the NRA, ect.

Take their tax exemptions, make people pay the taxes they donate... Go for it. But, I dont see how anyone could advocate the suppression of free speech. Even the numbnuts from Westboro. I would never agree with what he has to say.... but damn if I wont support his right to say it.



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