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Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 4:15:30 PM

tazzygirl

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WASHINGTON � Challenging presidential power, a defiant U.S. House voted overwhelmingly Friday to deny President Barack Obama the authority to wage war against Libya. But Republicans fell short in an effort to actually cut off funds for the operation in a constitutional showdown reflecting both political differences and unease over American involvement. In a repudiation of their commander in chief, House members rejected a measure to authorize the Libya mission for a year while prohibiting U.S. ground forces in the North African nation, a resolution Obama had said he would welcome. The vote was 295-123 with 70 Democrats abandoning the president just one day after Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton had made an unusual appeal to rank-and-file members. A Senate committee is to consider the same resolution next Tuesday and is expected to support it, raising the prospect of conflicting messages from Congress.

Im really intrigued by this. They, both parties, voted to rebuke Obama and wont allow him to wage war, yet they are still funding it?

Isnt that like saying... Obama, you were a bad boy, but its ok.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/24/2011 4:17:45 PM >

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 5:05:03 PM

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Nancy Pelosi made a comparison to a marriage the other day on this, saying the President needed to be doing a better job of communicating with Congress. Let's run with that. What the two votes today would translate to is the wife telling the hubby that she is pissed, and he won't be getting any poontang for a while, but that she isn't talking to a divorce lawyer just yet.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 5:21:50 PM

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The house is stamping their feet and reminding the President that they,and only they have the authority to wage "war"... But in a nod to reality they stopped well short of defunding the Libya mission....so in a sense they are acknowledging the realpolitc fact that the President is indeed Commander in Chief.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 5:40:18 PM

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We want nothing but peace.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 5:54:57 PM

TheHeretic

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Here's a point of view I saw this morning, Tazzy, before the votes took place.

Libya Conundrum: Congress to Hold Two Votes on the Conflict

Back when this mess began, in the midst of the Arab Spring, Congress would've been much more prone to supporting a democratic movement against Muammar el-Qaddafi. As it stands now, the U.S. wants him gone - but the mission doesn't hinge on it (at least officially).

The Obama Administration argues that the U.S. isn't really at war - a definition the Libyans hit by one of the 90 missiles dropped by U.S. planes and drones during the last three months might disagree with. Apparently, the Administration defines hostilities - an interpretation concocted over the objections of two top Pentagon lawyers - as a condition that exists only when U.S. troops are in a position to be fired upon. In Obama's ideal world, Congress need not concern itself with this little non-war thingy. Nothing to see here people. Move along.

But Congress won't move on. Obama has put House Speaker John Boehner in the uncomfortable position of having to bail him out. With the libertarian-leaning GOP freshmen and progressive doves up in arms over the "war," Boehner has little choice but to address the issue. But he wasn't about to allow his conference to pass an extreme measure defunding all U.S. action in Libya, which would freak out the European allies who are leading the mission. So the Speaker has crafted a plan that offers some political cover.

Of course, he thought the funding restrictions/approval would pass. This is more like the House telling the President that if he wants exclusive ownership, he's got it. Much like my ex letting the dog have a piece of pineapple, when he came begging while she ate a fruit salad.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 7:43:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
in a sense they are acknowledging the realpolitc fact that the President is indeed Commander in Chief.

He is, Mike, but Congress is the branch empowered to declare war. It is messy, in the modern era. I think Obama's decision to target a foreign leader, without Congressional authorization, usurps that power. I also think his assertion that doing it by remote control shouldn't be considered "hostile," is as ridiculous as it is Orwellian. Res ipsa loquitur.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 7:49:59 PM

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Yes indeed Rich,the thing certainly does speak for itself.....and every President since 1973 has held that in the final analysis the War Powers Act is unconstitutional.At best they try to avoid direct confrontation with Congress over it.....but none of them has wanted to be seen as paying anything more than lip service to it.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 8:14:59 PM

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These non-hostile hostilities remind me of a classic bit of Doonesbury

Attachment (1)

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 8:19:21 PM

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Were those the secret bombings of Laos or Cambodia ?

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 8:24:16 PM

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quote:

Im really intrigued by this. They, both parties, voted to rebuke Obama and wont allow him to wage war, yet they are still funding it?

This just means they are fucking spineless, we need a whole new congress from Boner on down.
I think people in every state should draft their favorite sports figures this fall and vote for them instead of any incumbents or tea party fucks.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 8:27:53 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Im really intrigued by this. They, both parties, voted to rebuke Obama and wont allow him to wage war, yet they are still funding it?

This just means they are fucking spineless, we need a whole new congress from Boner on down.
I think people in every state should draft their favorite sports figures this fall and vote for them instead of any incumbents or tea party fucks.

President Orr has a nice ring to it. Screw that natural born citizen thing.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 8:43:38 PM

tazzygirl

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Thank you for the article.

What does this all mean? We arent at "official" war? Not that it makes a difference to those who are dying there. I just dont get the need for two votes. As I am reading it, seems like they are telling Obama that he was wrong not to ask, but they will allow this to continue.

If the endeavour cannot continue unfinanced, how are they giving Obama exclusive ownership?

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 8:44:47 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Im really intrigued by this. They, both parties, voted to rebuke Obama and wont allow him to wage war, yet they are still funding it?

This just means they are fucking spineless, we need a whole new congress from Boner on down.
I think people in every state should draft their favorite sports figures this fall and vote for them instead of any incumbents or tea party fucks.

On that I completely agree. I may not like someone's politics. But I hate hypocrisy.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 8:51:22 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

President Orr has a nice ring to it. Screw that natural born citizen thing.

Fuck that ... We run the canadian naturalized guys for the congress. ... I can hardly wait till Boner calls Congressmen Orr, Neely, Chara, and Marchand, and Bergeron fucking socialist.
Tim Thomas is an AMERICAN BORN Citizen and 37 years old. And he has a crystal clear understanding of Defense and Foreign Diplomacy.

http://youtu.be/iS-CA11JonI

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 8:54:40 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

On that I completely agree. I may not like someone's politics. But I hate hypocrisy.

People can say whatever they want about presidential authortity, but bailing on the commander in chief, when you've taken no action and won't revoke the military, is somewhere between cowardice and treason.
It's false balls PERIOD.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 9:15:14 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Were those the secret bombings of Laos or Cambodia ?

Does it really matter? (but I think it was Cambodia)

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 9:21:52 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

I just dont get the need for two votes. As I am reading it, seems like they are telling Obama that he was wrong not to ask, but they will allow this to continue.

The Republicans knew they couldn't do their little Diss if they combined the issues. Why? Because as I said in earlier posts, they are all cowards. No money where their mouths are.
I hope this one completely bites them all in the ass.
This vote was more like saying to our NATO Allies "Well, since you're no longer really protecting us from the Soviets, you can all go to hell". Putin is no doubt laughing his ass off at the capital that he picked up today.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 9:27:59 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Were those the secret bombings of Laos or Cambodia ?

Does it really matter? (but I think it was Cambodia)

No it doesn't really matter...but than again neither does the war powers act....not in any real actual way ...and god help us were we ever to elect any President who would set the precedent that says otherwise.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 9:33:34 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
If the endeavour cannot continue unfinanced, how are they giving Obama exclusive ownership?

By washing their hands of it. The funding bill was sneaky. It claimed to deny funding, but would have amounted to an authorization.

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RE: Whats going on in the House - 6/24/2011 9:33:45 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

No it doesn't really matter...but than again neither does the war powers act....not in any real actual way ...and god help us were we ever to elect any President who would set the precedent that says otherwise.

But just for the record, it was both countries that were secretively bombed.

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