RE: how important is it to "break" a sub?

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Najakcharmer -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/17/2006 10:00:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoneGoddess When I break a submissive down to the root of his core issues, it's not done for the sake of hurting him, it's not a punishment, it's not even the same process as it is for Ebony and her slaves, it's a healing process. It's something I do out of love for him, to learn more about him, show him things about himself he may not have seen, as I said before. Liken it to a "vision quest" done BDSM style... or holding up a mirror. If ya can wrap your brains around that . Relevant thread of discussion here: http://www.collarchat.com/m_374431/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm#374810 For some, this "space beyond subspace" becomes a transcendant experience that they specifically seek for various personal reasons. I have "service topped" a number of people into this extreme place, generally at their request. In two cases it was to help them integrate a negative life experience into a positive lifestyle choice; these were former Vietnam veterans who had experienced nonconsensual captivity. In another case it was more of a spiritual or shamanic initiation, and the bottom was seeking an "out of body" experience to help them gain spiritual perspective. This theme can also be seen in a number of primitive societies, such as the fakirs of India with skewers through their cheeks that transport them to an ecstatic state, or the Native American pole dance where braves seeking to break through the barriers between flesh and the spirit world hung themselves from piercings by hooks and pulled them free, dancing. Make no mistake: this is highly, highly advanced play, and it is NOT RECOMMENDED for everyone. One of my recurring nightmares is to have somebody turn to me and say brightly, "But what could possibly go wrong with this red-hot branding iron scene with inverted nipple ring suspension? I've read three whole books by John Norman...." I don't want to sound like an elitist, but I get worried when I hear about people playing on this level unless I am confident that they have an extremely high level of competence with the human body and psyche. And even then, confidence is not always enough. quote: Does that sound fun? It isn't. Trust me. You're not taking something for your dominant. You're being hurt and abused. Depends on the individual and the situation. I've agreed to take people to that "space beyond subspace" several times, but only once was it for the purpose of deepening my D/s relationship. The other times I was acting as a service top, a shaman, a healer, a priest, a guide to someone else's inner space. It really depends on the individuals involved and their goals and agendas.

LoneGoddess -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/18/2006 10:19:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer quote: ORIGINAL: LoneGoddess When I break a submissive down to the root of his core issues, it's not done for the sake of hurting him, it's not a punishment, it's not even the same process as it is for Ebony and her slaves, it's a healing process. It's something I do out of love for him, to learn more about him, show him things about himself he may not have seen, as I said before. Liken it to a "vision quest" done BDSM style... or holding up a mirror. If ya can wrap your brains around that . Relevant thread of discussion here: http://www.collarchat.com/m_374431/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm#374810 For some, this "space beyond subspace" becomes a transcendant experience that they specifically seek for various personal reasons. I have "service topped" a number of people into this extreme place, generally at their request. In two cases it was to help them integrate a negative life experience into a positive lifestyle choice; these were former Vietnam veterans who had experienced nonconsensual captivity. In another case it was more of a spiritual or shamanic initiation, and the bottom was seeking an "out of body" experience to help them gain spiritual perspective. This theme can also be seen in a number of primitive societies, such as the fakirs of India with skewers through their cheeks that transport them to an ecstatic state, or the Native American pole dance where braves seeking to break through the barriers between flesh and the spirit world hung themselves from piercings by hooks and pulled them free, dancing. Make no mistake: this is highly, highly advanced play, and it is NOT RECOMMENDED for everyone. One of my recurring nightmares is to have somebody turn to me and say brightly, "But what could possibly go wrong with this red-hot branding iron scene with inverted nipple ring suspension? I've read three whole books by John Norman...." I don't want to sound like an elitist, but I get worried when I hear about people playing on this level unless I am confident that they have an extremely high level of competence with the human body and psyche. And even then, confidence is not always enough. quote: Does that sound fun? It isn't. Trust me. You're not taking something for your dominant. You're being hurt and abused. Depends on the individual and the situation. I've agreed to take people to that "space beyond subspace" several times, but only once was it for the purpose of deepening my D/s relationship. The other times I was acting as a service top, a shaman, a healer, a priest, a guide to someone else's inner space. It really depends on the individuals involved and their goals and agendas. Ah, you're right, this play isn't for everyone and in the wrong hands can be dangerous. So the question would be for this new sub to ask her what her goals with breaking him are, as we said before. If it's a surface break, just testing limits, or something more psyche seeking. And I agree it's not a task for the novice Domme to undertake. The safety police have arrived... ~Zan

TeeGO -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/19/2006 6:43:51 AM)
This thread has gone in many different directions. My thoughts is the Domme of the OP is merely trying to help mold him into being the true sub (slave, pet, whatever term you like) that both of them want him to become. A sub cannot be the perfect slave all be themselves. They need the proper interaction and training from the Dom to truly become this. The best desires and attitude by themselves are not enough. It's the interaction, the growth, the play, the service that brings the ultimate fulfillment. So she needs to "break" him to a certain extent. He needs to understand and accept this so they can both grow together into the fullness of the D/s relationship.

MLadyQueenowands -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/19/2006 7:12:17 AM)
I have broken and remade the personality of a beautiful but dangerous horse that hated people. It took two years to teach him to love me and by extension others. It involved continuous application of punishment and reward. I had to work hard and carefully to make sure that his new found love and respect for people passed on to the people who bought him from me. His submission and joy in service was a beautiful and deeply moving thing. However I determined I would never put such effort into a horse with such character faults again. I would seek out the genuine animal and mold them to enhance what was already there. That is the approach I am using with my slaves. It is true that respect and love are earnt and taught and bonds are deepened as the relationship grows; relationships have crises where the bonds are tested and reformed. Breaking in can be considered to be part of the process where the slave learns your rules and preferences and you how to work with their personality, a kind of settling and acceptance; as not every horse is suitable for every rider or the rider the horse so not every slave is suitable for every Mistress vice versa and processes will vary. ~ MyLady Queenowands

WhiteRadiance -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/20/2006 1:32:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MLadyQueenowands I have broken and remade the personality of a beautiful but dangerous horse that hated people. It took two years to teach him to love me and by extension others. It involved continuous application of punishment and reward. I had to work hard and carefully to make sure that his new found love and respect for people passed on to the people who bought him from me. His submission and joy in service was a beautiful and deeply moving thing. However I determined I would never put such effort into a horse with such character faults again. I would seek out the genuine animal and mold them to enhance what was already there. That is the approach I am using with my slaves. It is true that respect and love are earnt and taught and bonds are deepened as the relationship grows; relationships have crises where the bonds are tested and reformed. Breaking in can be considered to be part of the process where the slave learns your rules and preferences and you how to work with their personality, a kind of settling and acceptance; as not every horse is suitable for every rider or the rider the horse so not every slave is suitable for every Mistress vice versa and processes will vary. ~ MyLady Queenowands Excellent analogy.

peterK50 -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/22/2006 8:02:11 AM)
I have been a slave over 30 years to Mistresses, Masters & Couples. I have at various times been "Broken", but then rebuilt into the kind of slave my Owner<s> wanted

mons -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/24/2006 2:05:45 AM)
greetings I do not believe in breaking a sub but I do believe in training him to my taste and my will. I think breaking anyone is not a very good ideal, now I am not saying if anyone of you does this it is bad, it is just my personal thougths. A good submissive is a jewel to find! Why do something to mess up a good piece of male or female. They are like a puppy who has been taken from the pound, they will adore you and lick and do all to please you so why in the world mess with a good things. I say just train them to your likes, many submissive are so eager to please and long to be own. Let them be I say and this is just my opinion. best wishes mons/jane

LadyAlexa -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/27/2006 2:53:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bobbyoral2 i am a submissive male, have been for about 6 years now and just began a new relationship. problem is, i'm having a bit of trouble accepting the "break" concept. it seems to bring up very hostile feelings in me, feelings which i do not wish to show to my lady. my last domme had lots of physical issues, and so my spankings and whippings were limited to how long she could go on. now i am in a situation where the lady of my life speaks of this "breaking" concept as if it is always the thing to do, the reason for our time together. though i have some masochistic tendencies, the very word fills me with a burning rage. i am more the hero than the healer. i am a strong alpha male in public, but my nature is one of sacrifice and saving others from disaster. i cannot wrap my head around the concept of "breaking" someone. is it that important? is not submission sufficient to please most dominant women? your thoughts are most appreciated, as i struggle daily with this. R. I"ve never like the term 'breaking a submissive' Why would you want to break something that is so valuable. I've learned that to most it means to get the sub into the headspace that the Dom wants. Breaking of bad habits you might think. I have always taken a submissive as they are....bi, lesbian, leather, trans, CD, and went from there. I've enjoyed many aspects of learning about dealing with different levels and acceptance within the lifestyle. I try to instruct and teach a submissive as to what pleases me, what I desire and show them other ways of expressing themselves. Reminds me of a situation: being at home after a long day of work, sitting on the couch, sub at my side. I state, I'm thirsty and sub states: can you bring me something when you get yours. After looking at the sub for a moment, she stated 'what?' I said, Your response to my statement of being thirsty should have been, 'What do you wish Ma'am?' Then it was, oh ok, what would you like now? I made her crawl into the kitchen to get me something to drink, and she wasn't allowed to get off her knees. Neither was she allowed back on the couch next to me.

LadyAlexa -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/27/2006 2:54:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: peterK50 I have been a slave over 30 years to Mistresses, Masters & Couples. I have at various times been "Broken", but then rebuilt into the kind of slave my Owner<s> wanted Makes a large first aid kit up for you! I'm sure it's the manners, habits etc that they strived to mold!.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/27/2006 3:19:12 PM)
quote: is it that important? is not submission sufficient to please most dominant women? I don't believe in breaking anyone... It's too much work, and corrosive to the soul I would want to own. Yes submission is all I personally need. I wonder if you two spoke of limits initially, and am also wondering why you are comtemplating continuing a relationship which on the surface seems incompatible (to me). There's nothing wrong with having a masochist tendency, but breaking your spirit might be more than you bargained for, and may leave you useless to yourself and all women in the future. I would examine my relationship desires/goals, talk and try to resolve this misunderstanding sooner than later. M

MistressLorelei -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/27/2006 11:42:09 PM)
For me the term 'break my submissive' meant a certain defining moment, where a very emotional (non-physical) event took place, where he went further into sub-space than he had ever gone. I could see his posture change like never before, his facial expression changed, a certain feeling come over both of us... like a breaking point, he had given into something very emotionally powerful and we shared it together. He was not broken in a damaged way (who would want that?), but it was like a deeper connection existed afterwards due to the special bond we shared. It made us closer, we remained closer from that point on, and no one turned into a doormat.

MisPandora -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/28/2006 9:21:58 AM)
I personally have no use for breaking my things, be they my toys or My Toys. My philosopjy of slave management is more of molding, shaping and bending into a faster, sleeker and more sophisticated model than before. That doesn't come from force, but more successfully through encouragement and a bit of coercion :-)

TeeGO -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/28/2006 12:58:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei He was not broken in a damaged way (who would want that?), but it was like a deeper connection existed afterwards due to the special bond we shared. It made us closer, we remained closer from that point on, and no one turned into a doormat. That's the thing. Some people are talking about "breaking" meaning one thing while others another. I think the general agreement here is doing harm or damage is a bad thing. That's not the definition for breaking by the OP in my opinion.

MistressLorelei -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/28/2006 3:30:09 PM)
It is what 'breaking' as a bdsm term means to me... and, actually, at that defining (breaking) moment, our relationship took on a new tone. I felt, from that moment forward that he was more 'possessed' by me, more eager to do for me, more emotionally one with me, and from that point, we evolved into a continuous Dom/sub space. It's more of a mental breaking, as opposed to physical, but in a way it's similar; instead of physically beating someone, it was extreme humiliation. If 'breaking' in any context means damaging the physical or mental state of a submissive, then, no... I would not want to be a part of it.

keme -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/28/2006 5:39:15 PM)
Ok my take on the whole breaking thing... while what I say may not work in a relationship because I have not been in one in the lifestyle yet this is the way I see it. When you break a horse... (now people give me a break horses are not stupid just enjoy more simple pleasures) you break the spirit of the animal so it can be ridden by pretty much anyone who wants to... when you earn the animals trust and respect and he or she bows his or her will to you only you can ride it. Sorry if this is too simple of a concept but I see it the same with humans... if you tame a wild submissive or slave to your will... yet that spirit can be observed if only in his or her eyes then wow are you in for the ride of your life.

mellian -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/28/2006 9:05:49 PM)
What came to mind when I read the title is a Domme breaking a sub with mind games and mindfucks. "Gahh, you broke my brain!" curls up in the corner. -mellian

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