RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 2:52:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

It helps to know the laws - political usage is exempt.


Do you have a source for that opinion?
It is not an opinion. Law.cornell.edu is your friend.



Yes, Cornell University.edu is your friend, you should use it to support your own position, it is not my job to do it for you...






RakeAndCo -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 2:53:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Hmmmmm Apparently not
Charlie Crist used the Talking Heads song "Road to Nowhere" and was sued for a million dollars
They came to an agreement this year, but no details were given
You ought to find out exactly what that lawsuit was about.




Moonhead -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 2:54:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

It helps to know the laws - political usage is exempt.


Do you have a source for that opinion?
It is not an opinion. Law.cornell.edu is your friend.


Right. No court case with a songwriter taking a politician to court for using their song without permission has ever ended with the politician settling.




Lucylastic -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 3:00:42 PM)

He explains what he did wrong in the video
copyright infringement...
did not seek permission to use the song to be used for advertising of any kind.
The use of the song and his voice should not have been used without permission.





RakeAndCo -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 3:02:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

It helps to know the laws - political usage is exempt.


Do you have a source for that opinion?
It is not an opinion. Law.cornell.edu is your friend.


Right. No court case with a songwriter taking a politician to court for using their song without permission has ever ended with the politician settling.
Stick to things you know - there is a difference between using audio of the song in a commercials where politician raises money, which is what Christ was doing and using the song in the campaigns. This had been rehashed last time when RNC played Barracuda




Moonhead -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 3:04:51 PM)

Ah. The OP's source is lying, and Bachmann wasn't playing the song when she left the stage after making a speech that was being recorded for television, then.




RakeAndCo -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 3:06:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

He explains what he did wrong in the video
copyright infringement...
did not seek permission to use the song to be used for advertising of any kind.
The use of the song and his voice should not have been used without permission.
Wrong again. He used that song in a advertisement designed to solicit money. That is commercial speech and does not get wide protections. Using it in appearances would only entitle musician to royalties paid via likes of BMI, SESAC etc. No approval is needed.




Lucylastic -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 3:15:58 PM)

that is two sentances from his "speech" his own words.
his words. listen to the apology
im not going to argue with what the man said
but you go right ahead..





kat321 -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 3:25:54 PM)

If ASCAP was paid for use, then the campaign can use the song without Petty approving it.  However, what is unclear thus far is if either the venue for the rally or the rally organizers had paid ASCAP.  If one or the either had the license, the song use was legal, though maybe not ethical (in that use often implies an artist's support in the eyes of the public).  If neither had the license then there is a problem.

What has become clear over the years is once an artist comes out and says they do not support a candidate's use of his or her music, they usually back off- or lose the potential votes of die-hard fans.

Anyone remember when a politician (I think it was Reagan) used Springsteen's "Born in the USA" without his permission?  Not only was it boneheaded in that they didn't seek his permission during what was likely the high-point of his career, but it was also boneheaded because it was very obvious that the song's message was contradictory to what the campaign thought.




tazzygirl -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 3:42:11 PM)

That didnt work for McCain.

During August 2008, Browne sued John McCain, the Ohio Republican Party, and the Republican National Committee for using his 1977 hit, "Running on Empty", in an attack advertisement against Barack Obama without his permission.[10] In July 2009, the matter was settled under an undisclosed financial agreement with an apology from the McCain campaign and other parties.[11]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Browne

Though an ASCAP or BMI license is usually all it takes out on the campaign trail, if artists are really mad and feel the use of their music appeared to be an endorsement by them, the artist can sue under various states’ laws about right of publicity, charging false advertising. Another option would be to sue under the Lanham Act, in relation to trademark law.

A whole other ball of wax, so to speak, from playing someone’s song at public events is using an artist’s work in campaign ads. On that front this year, McCain has gotten slaps from Jackson Browne, Mike Myers and Warner Music over a Frankie Valli hit.

The biggest slap: In August, ultra-liberal singer/songwriter Browne filed suit against McCain, the Republican National Committee and the Ohio Republican Party for using “Running on Empty” in a TV ad that ran in Ohio and Pennsylvania mocking Obama’s suggestion that Americans conserve gas by checking their tire gauges. Browne said the ad created the impression that he supports the campaign, which he emphatically does not. Damages sought could run in excess of $1 million.

Iser, Browne’s attorney, said that synchronization rights must be secured to edit a song or part of a song to sync up with video. To use a sound recording of a certain artist with an ad, a master-use license must be purchased.

The McCain camp doesn’t agree. A legal adviser to the campaign said that using a short clip of a song or a short excerpt of copyrighted video falls under fair use. Under U.S. copyright law, the fair use doctrine allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holder, for certain purposes such as teaching or critical review.

“If an artist says ‘Please stop’ and you keep using their song, it looks arrogant and unseemly, which is not what the Republican Party needs right now,” said Robert J. Thompson, a pop culture expert and director of the Bleier Center for Television and Popular Culture at Syracuse University.

He added that the McCain campaign’s manhandling of songs, such as “Barracuda,” could backfire. “It’s like if Burger King used a song in its ads from an artist who sings, ‘I hate Burger King.’ Every time you hear it, it cues you to think, ‘There’s that cool song by that artist who is a Democrat and doesn’t want McCain using their song.’ It serves as an anti-endorsement.”




http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=67C8EB08-18FE-70B2-A8A2506C2996203F




flcouple2009 -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 4:00:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo
Law.cornell.edu is your friend.


Apparently it is not your friend.  As what you are spouting is wrong.

Music playing in the venue before anything happens, covered by Ascap or BMI rights.

Music used in the event must have permission cleared from the one holding the publishing rights.




RakeAndCo -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 4:50:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo
Law.cornell.edu is your friend.


Apparently it is not your friend.  As what you are spouting is wrong.

Music playing in the venue before anything happens, covered by Ascap or BMI rights.

Music used in the event must have permission cleared from the one holding the publishing rights.


Wrong again. PACER cite?

Now for the nth time - running sound in a commercial i.e. for the purpose of raising money i.e. a commercial speech, won't be covered as the political speech i.e. fair use while running the sound at the appearances will be covered as the political speech and fair use.. Now go back to the bar populated by the people that will suck the cock of anyone that will pay attention to them as they are the only people that will fall all over your delicate understanding of IP.




kat321 -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 4:51:35 PM)

Tazzy, McCain used the song in an advertisement.  This scenario is different from using a music clip at a live appearance.  The former requires obtaining permissions from artists and license holders (as does usage in online clips), the later needs blanket permission from and payment to  ASCAP or BMI.  Parodies of songs fall under a different category entirely as well.  Basically, the type of use and medium where the clip is used dictates which type of licensing is necessary. 

I agree that the entire practice of any politician co-opting a song for their use and then seeing how much free play they can get away with is sleazy, and that in this case unless ASCAP or BMI was paid that Bachman was wrong.




RakeAndCo -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 4:53:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

That didnt work for McCain.

During August 2008, Browne sued John McCain, the Ohio Republican Party, and the Republican National Committee for using his 1977 hit, "Running on Empty", in an attack advertisement against Barack Obama without his permission.[10] In July 2009, the matter was settled under an undisclosed financial agreement with an apology from the McCain campaign and other parties.[11]

Used in a commercial to raise money in excess of 15 second rule.




flcouple2009 -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 4:55:18 PM)

For the nth time, yoiu have no idea what your talking about.

Show of hands, everyone who has cleared music for events or productions raise your hand.  Mine is up, is yours?

Question for the inept.
   If it is fair use, then why are the artist sending cease and desist letters and the people hijacking the music stopping?




tazzygirl -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 4:57:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

That didnt work for McCain.

During August 2008, Browne sued John McCain, the Ohio Republican Party, and the Republican National Committee for using his 1977 hit, "Running on Empty", in an attack advertisement against Barack Obama without his permission.[10] In July 2009, the matter was settled under an undisclosed financial agreement with an apology from the McCain campaign and other parties.[11]

Used in a commercial to raise money in excess of 15 second rule.


And was Bachmann not filming the speech she gave?




SilverMark -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 4:57:12 PM)

I got a law suit threat once from ASCAP just over playing radio instead of a service like MUZAK....If you don't pay, you can't play without permission.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 4:58:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

For the nth time, yoiu have no idea what your talking about.

Show of hands, everyone who has cleared music for events or productions raise your hand.  Mine is up, is yours?

Question for the inept.
   If it is fair use, then why are the artist sending cease and desist letters and the people hijacking the music stopping?


Out of courtesy. My hand is up as well. Rake is correct. Your assertion that music "before" vs music "during" are different is absurd.




flcouple2009 -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 4:59:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo
Used in a commercial to raise money in excess of 15 second rule.


Save us from fools.

That is wrong, wrong and did I mention wrong.

You have no idea how much that urban legend has cost people when they have been sued and had to pay up.




flcouple2009 -> RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called out by Tom Petty (6/29/2011 5:04:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Out of courtesy. My hand is up as well. Rake is correct. Your assertion that music "before" vs music "during" are different is absurd.


Out of courtesy I am just gonna call you a bald face liar.

Cause if you've actually done that type of work yoiu would know everything you have said is incorrect.




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