RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (Full Version)

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StrongSpirit -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/29/2011 7:07:20 PM)

The idea is to have the subject picture themselves doing the desired activity while masturbating. A major issue is undesired side-effects. If you show an interracial BDSM scene, you may end up creating an inter-racial fantasy instead of BDSM. If you show a BDSM scene involving an older person, you may get granny based sexual desires. You need to keep everything as clear as possible.

It is easier if the subject is straight because if the person is gay, then you show them a man dominating a man, or a woman dominating a woman. That means they are just as likely to focus on the submissive when you want them to concentrate on the dominant. You do all this work to get a submissive and then they turn around and become dominant, the exact opposite of what you want. (or vice versa)

If you have a straight women and you show a woman dominating a man, then the process 'encourages' her to become dominant. If you show a man dominating a woman, it encourages her to be submissive.

If they are gay and you show hetero sex, you may just turn them bi, not dominant or submissive. Or make them a voyuer.

At least that is what I understand when I researched this on line a couple of years ago.




cloudboy -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/29/2011 8:22:24 PM)

Thanks for all the responses. Good to hear that some report going kinky after 35. As for me, I've had to remind myself that I cannot solve a friend's relationship problems or match him with the right person. He has to do that himself. He is now over 40. In the past he used to say things like, "I've taken a vow of celibacy," and "I'm not going to date anymore."

Back then, I never connected the pessimism with being a malesub. Of course there are other issues in the equation, but I have found his travails and lack of success upsetting.

In case any of you were wondering, the guy-in-question is good looking (could pass for one of the Beatles), well educated, height - weight proportionate, excellent at conversation, and considerate. I point this out merely to demonstrate that he would pass most first-date sniff tests. Its not as if he's an ugly, foul, maladjusted, dirty-minded, porn-conditioned, jobless slob who gropes women on the first date while making inappropriate remarks.



agirl -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/29/2011 8:29:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

The idea is to have the subject picture themselves doing the desired activity while masturbating. A major issue is undesired side-effects. If you show an interracial BDSM scene, you may end up creating an inter-racial fantasy instead of BDSM. If you show a BDSM scene involving an older person, you may get granny based sexual desires. You need to keep everything as clear as possible.

It is easier if the subject is straight because if the person is gay, then you show them a man dominating a man, or a woman dominating a woman. That means they are just as likely to focus on the submissive when you want them to concentrate on the dominant. You do all this work to get a submissive and then they turn around and become dominant, the exact opposite of what you want. (or vice versa)

If you have a straight women and you show a woman dominating a man, then the process 'encourages' her to become dominant. If you show a man dominating a woman, it encourages her to be submissive.

If they are gay and you show hetero sex, you may just turn them bi, not dominant or submissive. Or make them a voyuer.

At least that is what I understand when I researched this on line a couple of years ago.




And then there's me just liking male on male porn..... and not much else.

We had already worked out that I'm a gay chap in a fem bod...spare me the D/s aspect of it. This lady isn't for turning!

-ish.

agirl




HannahLynHeather -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/29/2011 8:30:41 PM)

quote:

In my experience:
which would be fuck all
quote:

he process I will describe below is not very powerful
try fucking powerless
quote:

it is a relatively weak result.
no shit sherlock!
quote:

At least that is what I understand when I researched this on line a couple of years ago.
did i fucking call the experience or what!?

christ's blood on toast! fucking jerking off??? whatever you're smoking should be fucking illegal, you do realize that no amount of rubbing or tugging will work if the porn doesn't fucking turn you on in the first place, don't you?

so tell me cuddles, just how fucking many nillas have you turned with this method?

listen up cloud boy, ignore everything this strongspirit says. he doesn't have a fucking clue.



agirl -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/29/2011 8:40:38 PM)

Don't worry about it. I have a buddy that bonks everything in sight and he's even older than me........! He's also a decent chap, great body, engaging,a muso, blah blah.....but he still hasn't ever got right down in the committed stakes. And he never will.

I really think he wants to(not just because he says it)............but I really don't think he has what it takes. Especially not now. It's just too late......sometimes it's just too late.

agirl



cloudboy -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/29/2011 9:24:18 PM)


Your friend at least sounds like he is having fun, whereas my friend is lonely and hurting. If this were a movie, the sad music would be playing and a montage of some lonely, good-as-gold kinky woman would be playing in Seattle, and then fate would link them together -- and after a few melodramatic bumps -- they'd be totally in love......



Awareness -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/29/2011 9:56:46 PM)

  For him?  No.

A Dom can kink up a feminine vanilla chick without too much trouble provided she's relatively sane and he's familiar with the malleable nature of subjective reality and some good old-fashioned operant conditioning.

A male sub doesn't stand a chance.  The power imbalance would require him to top from the bottom until she was in the position to do it herself and frankly, the leap from chick to sub is a lot smaller than the leap from chick to Domme.  In some weird corner of the universe, it might just theoretically be possible, but I wouldn't be taking any bets on it if I were you.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/30/2011 4:27:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

In case any of you were wondering, the guy-in-question is good looking (could pass for one of the Beatles)...



Him

[image]http://web.mac.com/paul_mccartney/macca_report_news/MaccaComicReliefSun.jpg[/image]

or him?

[image]http://www.euroteam.net/flash/EventImages/Ringo-Starr-Event.jpg[/image]

Mind you Ringo's looks have actually improved with age, though I do have to admit that he looks disturbingly like George Michael



cloudboy -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/30/2011 5:57:16 AM)

More like this but clean shaven.

[image]local://upfiles/210115/CB5B31D80C5C40FB8AF126FEEC2008E3.jpg[/image]



orchid77 -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/30/2011 6:11:04 AM)

OP I think your friend is being like a lot folk who is excited and want to get their pleasure and groove on- pushy. If you are with someone who seems to be open but doesn't act on it- it means maybe they need to be taught. There is nothing wrong with a bottom or sub teaching or helping a potential Top or Dominant learn a few things. There are books and movies on those topics. Also, communication is a big key. Asking someone to tie you up and then leaving all the ideas up to the person, when they may not know what the hec to do can be scary, overwhelming, and confusing.

Your friend should not use tit for tat as a way to force, manipulate, or make their potential play partner do anything. This will ultimately close shop and maybe turn them off completely. It is like telling someone you are going to a G movie and then taking them to a hardcord X-rated movie and asking them would they like to do that again. You have just turned their head around and maybe freaked them out!

A lot of talking is needed. And should you find this isn't really her. Your friend either needs to deal with it or leave the relationship. Don't blame her.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/30/2011 6:47:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Now he's been in a relationship for about six months with a kind of "wild" woman who is "free spirited." When he mentioned the "tie me up" part of what he would like to do in bed, she said all the right things (sure, yes, I can do that, etc.) but never actually acted on her promises. He then pestered her to do it, and it did not go well.

He says, "she's not meeting my needs while I have met hers." (Meaning he has done things she's wanted, but she's not reciprocated.)



Your friend sounds confused.  He says that he is meeting her needs, but I doubt that is true.

They've been together for 6 months in a vanilla relationship.  At that point in a relationship, she probably started having visions of a "normal" life together with a house, a dog, and 2.5 kids.  Then out of nowhere, he changed on her.  And instead of the future that she had envisioned, he paints a picture that probably sounded a bit weird for her.  He wants her to tie him up, and lock him in a cage, or f*ck him with a strap-on.

He has to understand that SHE is not the one who changed.  He did.  So it's not accurate to say that he is meeting her needs, but she is not meeting his.

Rather than meeting vanilla girls, and then trying to convert them, why not just get active in the local BDSM community and try to meet someone that way?  It would be a fairer, more genuine way to approach a woman in my opinion.  His current method of pretending to be vanilla and then springing kink on the unsuspecting woman 6 months into the relationship just sounds like a classic "bait and switch".  It's completely unfair to his vanilla victims.



erieangel -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/30/2011 6:53:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I also said, you can't really date Vanilla and then hope someone "turns" or "discovers" their kinky side. (Especially over age 35.)





LOL - oh, so very much not true.



I wonder where the OP got that idea. I'm 48 and have never been in a kinky relationship. Not that i wouldn't have jumped at the chance, just never had the opportunity. My ex and i did experiment with kink a little bit, but he wasn't into it. He was always far too concerned with his own sexual satisfaction than mine--which a lot of times meant him fucking me while i lay like a log getting nothing from it, usually with little or no foreplay. That's what happens when you're with a domineering, selfish, immature guy, i guess and a lot of the reason why i divorced him.



graceadieu -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/30/2011 7:50:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

A Dom can kink up a feminine vanilla chick without too much trouble provided she's relatively sane and he's familiar with the malleable nature of subjective reality and some good old-fashioned operant conditioning..


I dunno, I know someone that's tried this, apparently repeatedly, with no luck. I think people are wired how they're wired, and a vanilla partner might be up for a bit of light spanking or light bondage or role playing to "spice things up", but I'll doubt many people are going to get more traction than that unless their "vanilla" partner is also a secret kinkster of a compatible nature.



graceadieu -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/30/2011 7:52:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
In case any of you were wondering, the guy-in-question is good looking (could pass for one of the Beatles), well educated, height - weight proportionate, excellent at conversation, and considerate. I point this out merely to demonstrate that he would pass most first-date sniff tests. Its not as if he's an ugly, foul, maladjusted, dirty-minded, porn-conditioned, jobless slob who gropes women on the first date while making inappropriate remarks.


Then I'd suggest he stop trying to "turn" vanilla women and just narrow his dating pool to dominant/top women.



SailingBum -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/30/2011 3:35:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I have a friend who recently admitted that he is a malesub or bottom (we did not get into semantics), and that this has proven somewhat of a killer in his dating universe. Either he's not turned on by the sex he has with regular women or they are turned off by his request to "tie him up." (This would be introduced at some point, which he has varied. Its a big question for him when to bring it up.)

Now he's been in a relationship for about six months with a kind of "wild" woman who is "free spirited." When he mentioned the "tie me up" part of what he would like to do in bed, she said all the right things (sure, yes, I can do that, etc.) but never actually acted on her promises. He then pestered her to do it, and it did not go well.

He says, "she's not meeting my needs while I have met hers." (Meaning he has done things she's wanted, but she's not reciprocated.)

What I said to him was, "If she is not into something, you really can't change her. Sounds like she's trying to be cool and down with bondage because as a "free spirit" she doesn't want to come off as 'uncool' or a 'stick in the mud' -- but her actions betray someone either not turned on or turned off by bondage."

I also said, you can't really date Vanilla and then hope someone "turns" or "discovers" their kinky side. (Especially over age 35.)

What do you think, can someone like him "with the right approach" (whatever that is) lure someone into a kinky domination role?

His history and stories suggest "no."



Ehh I disagree with your entire premise. I ve spoken with numerious ppl that later in life have said "you know I'd really like to try x

BadOne



cloudboy -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (6/30/2011 7:15:12 PM)


I'm somewhat with you, the confusing thing for him is how the GF said she'd give it a go, but then never acted on it. He's also well aware of the whole dilemma of: how and when do you introduce a subject like bondage to a potential GF.

Anyone, as I said earlier, I had to stop myself from being over concerned b/c none one can solve another's dating problems or relationship issues. I listen, give feedback, and try to be helpful and supportive -- but its up to him to figure things out.



SlaveSubtoserve -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (9/6/2011 7:33:05 AM)

yup to all said here....unless she has the right Domme seed this is fruitless......it is a bit of a numbers game when fishing in vanilla-land like that.

sounds like he inferred her wild child-ness to mean she might be Domme and she isn't so...



quasarr -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (9/6/2011 9:33:38 AM)

She might just not know how or what to do, I would imagine. It's obviously good that she says she's willing to do these things, but it's hardly realistic to sort of expect her to do all these things for him with zero experience. That's where communication really comes into play. He needs to tell her what he likes, and how he likes it, not just be like "Tie me up!" ...okay, and THEN what? And why? Really talking about it thoroughly beforehand would definitely help her feel more comfortable, methinks. My apologies if I'm just be repeating everything other people said. I haven't read all responses in the thread yet.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (9/6/2011 9:44:02 AM)

Being a dominant requires flying in the face of many lessons we are taught and can be quite scary. I know for me, some of it was easy, say tying a woman up, but really hurting them, face slapping, cutting, choking and gagging them took time before I started becomeing okay with doing it and I still at times struggle to push past my own limits.

For a woman, there are social norms that are not easy to get past. Learning to top isn't rocket science but sometimes people need to be shown its okay in more ways that "I want it"...tell her you want 10 clamps on your cock and buy, gift wrap, and present her with them on a night you have time to play with them. In other words, gut every thought of hers that "he is just saying it, he doesn't really mean it" and hold her hand the entire time.

Its almost a cliche in the scene if you have been around long enough that two people, both vanilla, harbor secret fantasies, one of topping the other bottoming and both are two scared to act on it. After they come out, sometimes the relationship makes it but often it fails only to flourish later with someone else. Not because the two were not compatible but because they were too afraid to act on the desires, afraid they would be rejected if they did, even if the partner says "I want it"...

Even dominants do so. I was with someone who was willing to do things that I was scared to try with her for fear of losing her, fear that the reality wouldn't match the hot fantasy, fear of going too far, etc. Its actually pretty common.



AneNoz -> RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? (9/6/2011 10:18:15 AM)

I am in agreement with these sentiments SimplyMichael, there is truth and wisdom in your words.

Be at peace
Aneka



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